#2 - Devinder Kaur - Awakening kundalini

Two voices show up when we get quiet: the one that tightens with fear, and the one that speaks with compassion. We open with a real moment on the yoga mat, then dive into a grounded conversation with Devinder Kaur, a Kundalini yogi and the owner of Pranashanti Yoga Centre in Ottawa, Canada, about what kundalini actually is and what it is not.

We unpack the classic “dormant energy at the base of the spine” idea, why some kundalini awakening stories sound extreme, and why most people experience energy shifts in simpler ways like warmth, calm, and clearer focus. I also share a deeply somatic experience brought on by plant medicine that felt like energy surging through my spine, and how it pushed me toward better habits, meditation, and a serious commitment to living my best life.

From there we get practical: what kundalini yoga practice looks like day to day, why mantra and sound vibration can change mood, and how Breath Of Fire works as a cleansing, energizing breathwork tool with real carryover into the nervous system and daily stress. We also address the Yogi Bhajan controversy honestly, including how Devinder teaches with discernment and how she thinks about origins, power dynamics, and integrity. Finally, we talk about the business of yoga, yogic values like ahimsa and satya, and what “success” starts to mean after years of practice.

If you want a clear, human take on kundalini yoga, mantra, meditation, and building a daily practice that holds up on hard days, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs a reset, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

https://pranashanti.com/

Transcript

Intention, Fear, And The True Voice

Peter Kolakovic 0:01

Hello everyone. My name is Peter, and you are listening to My Best Life, a podcast where we talk to people about what it means to live their best lives. You know, this morning I was on my yoga mat and doing a bit of yoga, doing a bit of breath work, doing a bit of meditation. And before I started my practice, I had set an intention for the practice. And my intention was to release whatever is not serving me well. So I'm in the midst of my practice, and you know, sometimes when I get deep into a yogic posture, I can feel a bit of release. This morning it was mostly in my left hip where I felt a bit of tightness there, and was feeling a lot of release. Pretty intense at times, kind of on the uh on the border between pleasure and pain, to be very honest. So anyhow, it it kind of struck me because you know, when you're when you're feeling that kind of tension, sometimes you hear that little nagging voice in your head that uh is is full of doubt and full of uncertainty and is, you know, really motivated by fear, fear of fear of failure, fear of whatever it is. And you know, sometimes we all hear that voice, and like everyone else, I hear it from time to time. But the thing that I've discovered through my practice is that when you take the time and really listen and be still, that there is another voice. Another voice that can be heard, which is uh, you know, uh some traditions would call it your true self. There are lots of other ways to describe it. Your conscience, your your authentic self, the universe, you know, whatever your particular belief system is. Maybe you think God is talking to you, who knows? In any event, there's that that other voice, which is full of compassion, self-compassion, first and foremost, because we have to acknowledge that, you know, none of us is perfect. I've certainly made my share of mistakes over the years, that's for sure. But yeah, I mean that that voice is is forgiving. It says, Yeah, you've made some mistakes, but hey, you're trying, right? You're getting you're getting back on the bicycle and taking another run at it, getting back up off your feet after having been knocked down, and you are doing your best, doing your best to live your best life. And in the end, that's that's all you really need to do. So, anyhow, that was my little reflection this morning while I was engaged in my practice, and I thought I would share that as I introduce the second guest on the podcast. Another yogi, surprise, surprise, uh not a big surprise, since uh I've been so immersed in that world in the law in the last seven or eight years. Another one of my teachers who I'm very, very happy to present. And I was very delighted to have this conversation with her. Her name is Davinder Kor. She is a Kundalini yogi. She's also the owner of Pranashanti, Pranashanti Yoga Studio in Ottawa, Canada. And just a lovely, lovely human being. Someone that I've already learned quite a bit from, and I haven't known her for that long, maybe a year at most, about that. Yeah, just someone that's very pleasant, very down-to-earth, very personable, great sense of humor, and and a lot of just wonderful, wonderful insights into human nature, into into yoga, and yeah, related related disciplines. So, anyhow, yeah, we we talk a bit about kundalini, whatever that is, and we'll get into that. What else do we talk about? Well, we we have such a lovely conversation, and and ultimately, you know, I get the vendor's perspective on what it means for her to live her best life. So I think it's uh it's a wonderful conversation, again, just full of wonderful insights from a wonderful human being. So hope you give it a listen and hope to see you again soon. So without further ado, this is my conversation with Devinder Korr.

What Kundalini Energy Really Means

Peter Kolakovic 5:52

Thanks for listening. Devinder Kor. Welcome to the podcast.

Devinder Kaur 6:01

Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.

Peter Kolakovic 6:04

It's a pleasure to have you. So I wanted to start with a little quote from a book. It's a book that I think you're familiar with. Okay. It's called Kundalini: The Evolutionary Energy in Man by Gopi Krishna.

Devinder Kaur 6:21

All right. Yeah.

Peter Kolakovic 6:23

So here's the quote. And it it it's so it's it's talking about kundalini as this spiritual force that lies dormant in every human being. And once awakened, often through meditation and yoga practices, it apparently rises up through the spine and finds expression in the form of spiritual knowledge, mystical vision, etc., etc. But it can be, for some people, the awakening can be a challenging experience. So here's the quote from Gobi Krishna. Little did I realize that from that day onwards I was never to be my old normal self again, that I had unwittingly and without preparation or even adequate knowledge of it, roused to activity the most wonderful and stern power in man, that I had stepped unknowingly upon the key to the most guarded secret of the ancients, and that thenceforth, for a long time, I had to live suspended by a thread, swinging between life on the one hand and death on the other, between sanity and insanity, between light and darkness, between heaven and earth. So when I read something like that, I start wondering to myself, why on earth would I want to awaken this force within me if if indeed there is, if indeed this force does exist? What are your thoughts?

Devinder Kaur 7:53

Well, you know, I think there's a range of experiences that can be had, right? With all different kinds of energy that exists within us or outside of us. I think Gopi Krishna's explanation there is probably not most people's experience of energy awakening in the body. I think there's ranges and degrees at which that happens, and also ranges and degrees of awareness around what is happening energetically within our bodies or outside of our body. So I'm curious and you know, I spend a lot of time, uh, as you can imagine, practicing, and I love to dabble in all kinds of different yogic practices. So when I hear or read something like that, part of me is like, oh wow, I would really love that to happen. And then there's another part of me is like, I'm not so sure I would want something like that to happen. I haven't had that type of experience that Gopi Krishna describes. My experience of energy moving in my body is more like a a warmth or a like a sensation of movement in the body, a feeling of calmness or or an or energy, like more energized feeling. So I can't say that I was moving between life and death or anything like that. Maybe part of his comment is more poetic and metaphoric, I'm not sure. But yeah, why would you then want to practice something like that?

Peter Kolakovic 9:34

It sounds like something. I and and so I I had my own experience, which and I I to this day I still don't know whether it was this thing that people call kundalini. Yeah. And I'm happy to share that experience with you because it wasn't quite the same, but it but it was a really, really powerful energy that I felt. But before we get there, what exactly is Kundalini? Because it's it's this thing that, you know, I I think even the average person maybe has heard of, because sometimes you hear about even Hollywood celebrities talking about raising their kundalini. And then you kind of roll your eyes and you think, well, is this thing real? Is it just some, you know, passing fad? So in your experience, like what is it exactly?

Devinder Kaur 10:20

Well, I mean, we know from yogic philosophy and different yogic texts that the idea is that there's a dormant energy at the base of the spine, and through different practices, you can move that energy all the way up through the various chakras, the energy centers, and perhaps even through to the crown of your head and beyond. And different schools have different ideas of what happens to that energy after after that, and whether it comes back down within you and circulates or not. So that's you know, kind of the general philosophy is that we've got this energy that we can awaken within our bodies. You know, I I think everybody's got to have their own experience around that. You know, I I teach a lot and I talk to a lot of different people that practice yoga. And again, like there's just ranges of experience. You know, some people do feel like they have energy that moves through their body, some people don't notice anything at all, and maybe and that's just fine too. My own experience was that yeah, I do feel like I have a sense of energy moving through my body, through my spine primarily, through to the crown of my head. I feel like there's a warmth. But I think my my personal opinion is that when you have this kundalini energy move, it's really there to help us live our in our best way, live in our most productive, most awake, alert, inspired way. I don't think it's there to harm you. I think it's there for you, it's part of you if we if you believe that it exists. And I think really it's just a way of manifesting for ourselves our greatest way of being that's actually.

Peter Kolakovic 12:11

I mean, if you talk about helping us live our our best lives, that's you know the theme of the podcast, obviously. And

Psychedelics And A Spine Surge Story

Peter Kolakovic 12:19

you know, I alluded to my own experience some years ago. It was about eight years ago now. And I'll be you know very honest, very frank, it was brought up brought up brought on by psychedelics, psilocybin mushrooms. It was my first experience. And I was and you know, just to be clear, I had never never really tried any drugs as a as a younger man. It was something that I deliberately stayed away from. But in my early 40s, I got to a point in life where my marriage was falling apart and I was looking for meaning. And all of a sudden, this option was presented to me. It came to me, and I thought, for whatever reason, I thought, okay, I have to do this. It seemed like the right path for me. So, anyhow, I I uh I set up this, I set up an appointment with this guide that I I uh I found through some friends, and I made sure to do it in a country where it was legal because I didn't want to have to worry about that part of things. And so I get to this experience, and maybe you know, about an hour or two in, and it's it's hard to keep track of time when you're in that that mind space. It's it's feeling very light. I'm laughing a lot, I'm I'm having some some really profound insights, and and my guide all of a sudden starts playing some music. Well, he asked me first, would you like me to play some music? And I said, sure, why not? And he's got two big speakers set up on either side of the couch that I was lying on. And I'm lying on this couch with a the blindfold on, my eyes are closed, and it's a really interior experience. And as the music starts playing, he starts playing instrumental reggae music of all games. And you know, reggae music has that very distinctive offbeat. Yeah. And I found that my body started to convulse to the beat of the music, and I just felt this incredibly powerful energy surging through my it was concentrated in my spine, but I felt it throughout, I felt it throughout my whole body. And it it lasted for the longest time, and it was the most incredible somatic experience I've ever had. Yeah. I don't know how long it lasted, it was at least an hour, perhaps two, where I felt this energy surging through my body. And from that point, you know, following that experience and a few others that I had, living my best life all of a sudden became very, very important to me. I changed my diet. I started delving into yoga, meditation, related practices. And I had no idea what to make of that experience. Even to this day, I I still hesitate to to label it as you know a kundalini awakening, or I don't know what it was. I just know that it was incredibly powerful. So, anyhow, for what it's worth, that was that was my experience. I I I I don't know if it was kundalini energy, but yeah, you know, when I read the descriptions, it kind of makes sense.

Devinder Kaur 15:40

Yeah, it does. It does kind of make sense. And I would also even, you know, from the what way you described it was, you know, it comes across too almost like like a complete reawakening, you know, a rebirthing of sorts that took place for you. And you know, and and these kinds of things can happen, right? Where people, you know, the right circumstance, the right combination of experiences just happen to converge at just the right time when you were looking for something and wanting to have that type of experience as well. And, you know, the combination of energy moving and the music and the psychedelics and the the rhythm and the beat and whatever that combination is, and it's probably people can have very similar experiences with different factors, created that moment, like you said afterwards. Oh, I wanted to change my the way I was living. You know, I it it was so profound that it really awakens something within you that now I need to make this change and make this change in my life. And and it's almost, you know, for want of a better word, like you were fast-tracked into that. Whereas me some other people might take years of yoga practice to come to these kinds of next steps in their life that they want to make change or or or or or it appears very gradually for them. But yours was like, whoosh, let's go.

Peter Kolakovic 17:10

Sure was. It sure was.

Devinder Kaur 17:12

Yeah.

Kundalini Yoga And How She Began

Peter Kolakovic 17:13

So tell me about kundalini yoga, the practice itself, and what brought you to it.

Devinder Kaur 17:20

So the type of kundalini yoga that I teach and that I practice is known as kundalini yoga is taught by Yogi Bhajan. There's many different types of kundalini yoga, but the basic premises is premise for kundalini yoga in general is about moving energy through your body and having an awakening of your mind, body, and spirit. And the one that I I practice that I enjoy has a lot of rhythmic movement to it. There's chanting, it's considered to be like a holistic practice because it has postures, breath work, sound, mantra, you know, all combined into one practice or class type of experience. So that's what Kundalini Yoga generally is. You know, there's Hatha versions of Kundalini Yoga, there's Tibetan versions of Kundalini Yoga, there's all kinds of different versions of it in different flavors based on who's the teacher. And I happened to cross this particular type of kundalini yoga while actually I was doing a Hatha Yoga teacher training. The idea was go and try different styles of yoga. I didn't even know this style of yoga existed. And I went to the class and I thought I will never do that class ever again. It was too weird.

Peter Kolakovic 18:45

Is that right?

Devinder Kaur 18:45

It was too weird. I didn't like it. I didn't care for it. I couldn't understand like why is the teacher making us do these postures? They don't seem to make any sense. And I went home completely frustrated by the whole experience and thought, I will never do that ever again. And really, it was a friend of mine said, you know, you should go try this kundalini yoga. I think you might like it. And I called her up and I said, I did not like that. I'm not doing that ever again. That was just way too weird. And but a number of months later, I ended up in a kundalini yoga class. I didn't intend on going to a kundalini yoga class. I was actually in the wrong room and the wrong studio room. But I went to try to exit the room to roll up my yoga mat, but it was making too much noise, and the room was very quiet and people were quite still and preparing, you know, for the start of the class. Instead of making a lot of noise, I just left the mat and attended the class.

Peter Kolakovic 19:45

So you were in the right room after that.

Devinder Kaur 19:47

So perhaps I was in the right room after all. Who knows? And anyways, the teacher came in and I had this wonderful class experience. And so that's what really intrigued me is that the first time I I didn't care for it, yet the second time I had a really great experience. And I felt really quite uplifted for you know the rest of that day and into the next day, and I really enjoyed it. So I thought, okay, what's that all about? Like, why did I have those two contrasting experiences? So I went back and and tried a few more kundalini classes, finished off the half the teacher training, and thought, I gotta learn more about this. This is really interesting to me. So yeah, and then I just started going to more kundalini yoga classes and then eventually got involved in a kundalini teacher training, and then started teaching both styles of of classes.

Peter Kolakovic 20:39

That's a fascinating story.

Devinder Kaur 20:41

But not like the very first one, no. Oh. Which I now get, like when people now when I see people come to class. Sure. And it was a it was a good teaching moment in in as much as I can relate to people coming to these classes and thinking that's really strange, you know, or that's really out there, or what is she doing now? You know, like I get that now because I've I was in those shoes. Yeah.

Peter Kolakovic 21:07

Well, certainly if you if if you start with other other varieties of yoga, like Hatha Yoga or you know, uh Ashtanga, you come to a kundalini class and and it is very different.

Devinder Kaur 21:21

It's very different, yeah. It's very different. And you know, the the movements are different. I mean, there's some postures that are very much like Hatha Yoga, but and some and some of them are just like, well, that's just really out there. But you know, that's kind of what makes it interesting. I think that's kind of what keeps you engaged in it because you just don't know what's coming next. It's not that predictable, so you don't have that sense of going sort of into autopilot because you don't know what's coming next in the in the lineup of the postures.

Yogi Bhajan Controversy And Discernment

Peter Kolakovic 21:55

So you mentioned that you studied kundalini yoga as Taught by Yogi Bhajan. Can you talk a bit about him? Because I I do understand that he's a bit of a controversial figure in the Shihoku world.

Devinder Kaur 22:10

It's very controversial.

Peter Kolakovic 22:11

Yeah, some allegations uh surfaced a few years back. And you speak a bit about that.

Devinder Kaur 22:16

Yeah, very, very sadly. So unfortunately, like many spiritual traditions, the spiritual teacher misbehaved, fell, and that happened in the Kundalini yoga tradition as as we've been discussing. And you know, if it was at that time, it was in 2020, very, very upsetting, obviously, and distressing for so many people that enjoyed the practice and really enjoyed the community. And I mean, obviously it was devastating for myself as well. But, you know, what an example, yet again, that we see in society of you know, power dynamics and you know, things, you know, being mishandled and and people becoming hurt, you know. So we see it, you know, in all walks of life, right? You know, we see it in sports, we see it in church and movies and what have you. So unfortunately, yeah, it happened in this tradition as well. So, you know, I still enjoy the practice, I still get a lot of benefit from the practice. I enjoy teaching it. I've seen, you know, for 20 plus years, people have great experiences with the practice. So I choose to continue practicing it. I mean, I didn't take on kundalini yoga because of a spiritual teacher. I took on kundalini yoga because I enjoyed the practice and how it made me feel and the community aspect of it. So to me, it wasn't about a single teacher concept. I have a mindset, personal mindset that I like to study and learn from as many different people as possible, because I don't really believe one person holds all the information. So I still have a strong interest in many different yoga styles. But for me, the practice of Kundalini Yoga, and particularly the meditations that are part of Kundalini Yoga and the breath work really have supported me and helped me over these past 20 plus years. So although it was and is still distressing that you know these allegations and problems came to light, I still feel that there's great value in the practice. Yeah, it has. You know, you know, I used to be very interested in, I guess you could call it sort of the the ritual side of the practice, you know. You know, the Sikh faith is still something I relate to. But I definitely changed how I teach when that came that information came forward. And I'm very I I guess I've kind of always been sort of a skeptic in that I like to really try something first to see if it works for me or not. And there's some practices in Kundalini yoga that are are just not interesting to me, but there's some that are are really fantastic and I I think they're great. So the ones that I feel that support me and have helped me, that's the stuff I teach. The other stuff I don't bother just don't bother with. So I I've kind of always been a little discerning about that. So I still continue to do that. And, you know, and I, for want of a better word, you know, try to reverse engineer the kriyas and the meditations and like, well, where did this come from? Where did that come from? Who created this? Who created that? You know, because Yogi Bhajan was like many of the teachers that came to the West in the 70s, you know, he came with his own brand and style of practice. And where did he get that from? And who did he get that from? And where does that exist? And where did that mantra come from? And so I want to understand all of that and bring that forward into how I teach and what I teach so that I feel like I'm speaking from a place in class at least that is honoring wherever the tradition, you know, originated from. None of these teachers really created anything brand new. You know, they're a lot of them repackaged, right? And and what we see with Kundalini Yoga is taught by Yogi Bhajan is, you know, a compilation of different things. Like the chakra system is represented in Kundalini Yoga. Yogi Bhajan did not create the chakra system. You know, and there's a lot of Ayurveda in Kundalini Yoga. That was not something created by the teacher. So, you know, I like to look back and see where all the those things actually came from and what the origins of those things are.

Mantra, Vibration, And The Gong

Peter Kolakovic 27:24

You mentioned mantra, and I wanted to touch upon that subject in particular, because when I started my first kundalini classes, it was one of the things that I noticed coming from a Hata Yoga background, where there is certainly mantra in in Hata Yoga, but in your typical studio, your typical yoga studio in the West, you you don't really hear it too much, I don't think. Whereas in a kundalini class, it's it's a lot of mantra extensively. So can you talk about mantra and and why it's used and the relevance of sound and sound energy?

Devinder Kaur 28:04

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of mantra in kundalini yoga, and probably more than what you have would have in most modern day Hatha classes or other styles, which is not to say that they don't exist because Hatha yoga is super rich in mantra, but it just seems to be a little less included. But there is a fair amount of mantra and kundalini yoga. Some of it comes from you know, Syri Gudagran site, the Sikh Kholi book. Some of it is created in modern times by perhaps Yogi Bhajan or other teachers. And it's there, you know, to have this experience of internal vibration, you know, raise our internal vibration through our own vibration, through our own voice. And it's a really effective tool. And so if we can create and change our mood, for example, through changing our vibration, through changing our internal frequency, a way to do that is with uh sound and mantra. And, you know, in Kundalini Yoga, sound comes not just from mantra, but it also comes from the gong as an instrument being played in the class. So it's all tied into this idea of, you know, we came from one vibration and we're moving through life in it with a vibration. We can change our vibration, we can change our perspective, we can uplift ourselves, we can have that vibration as a way to carry ourselves, you know, through difficulties, through challenges, or to just simply, you know, come to a state of peace or calm or, you know, openness in our in our own mind and our own heart.

Peter Kolakovic 29:53

Another

Breath Of Fire And Why It Works

Peter Kolakovic 29:54

one of the really interesting practices that I've noticed in Kundalini Yoga is the extensive use of the breath of fire.

Devinder Kaur 30:02

Oh, yeah, breath of fire. Yeah, breath of fire, yeah.

Peter Kolakovic 30:05

Can you talk a bit about that and and why it's so central to this practice? At least it seems to be to me.

Devinder Kaur 30:10

Yeah, there's a lot of breath of fire. And it almost shows up pretty much in every Korea. I actually really love breath of fire. I think it's, you know, this rapid breath to, you know, again, move the navel center, move the energy, you know, play with the energy of the of the third chakra to create some change for ourselves. And, you know, it's a cleansing breath, it's a revitalizing breath. So there's, you know, there's a bunch of purposes for it. And it's interesting too because I was teaching a breath work course not too long ago and looking at breath work in Hatha Yoga. And I actually, you know, had for the longest time had thought that breath of fire was very similar to Kapalabhati. And we say that a lot in class, and we say that in training. She knows oh, it's very much like Kapalabhati. It's just that it's an even breath in, even breath out. But I think it's actually closer to Bastrika than it is to Kapalabhati, because it has a lot of the same elements that Bastrika has for the powerful breath and the forcefulness or strength of the breath. And so, and the cleansing aspect that Bastrika also has, too. So it's kind of like halfway between Bastrika and Kapalabhati, which I think is kind of interesting. I hadn't thought about it in that way previously. So, you know, it's it's interesting. It's, you know, it heats you up, it warms you up, it creates the tapas that we want, you know, just as it does with the Hatha practice with Bastrika and Kapalabhati, it's there for that same kind of purpose. But yeah, we do a fair amount of it, yeah.

Peter Kolakovic 31:53

So just for the benefit of listeners who may not be familiar with some of these terms, these practices. So breathifier is well, I would describe it as an active exhalation while kind of contracting the abdomen.

Devinder Kaur 32:09

Yeah. So you're moving, you're moving the abdomen, you're moving the belly a little bit in and out with the breath. So with the inhale, you soften, and with the exhale, you draw the navel in. And this is all in effort to move the diaphragm so you can breathe so that you're making the breath as efficient as possible. So equal breath in, equal breath out, you know, whereas Kabbalah Bhati is more focused on the exhale.

Peter Kolakovic 32:34

Right.

Devinder Kaur 32:35

And then Bastrika is the powerful, sometimes with arms, you know, powerful breath in, powerful breath out. So that's why I say breath of fire kind of lies sort of almost, it's like a bit of a hybrid of the two. Yeah.

Peter Kolakovic 32:48

So breath of fire, all these different practices, mantras. What are the benefits? Like, how does this carry over into our daily lives? What why should we why should we do this? Why should we do this?

Devinder Kaur 33:03

Why should we do this practice? Yeah. Well, I I don't know. Like I've I've tried a lot of different yoga and a lot of different practices over the years. And the one thing that stands out for me, particularly with this practice of Kundali Yoga, is the ability for it to move energy in the body. And, you know, if you're in a bad mood or you've had a rough day, or you do this kind of practice, and it just sort of you can shift your mood, you can shift your energy very quickly. And I it's in, you know, due to the combination of the different things that are happening in a practice, you know, the breath and the mantra, you know, it's got this whole package of different things happening. So I think that contributes to the fact that you can shift your energy, shift your mood quite efficiently. You know some of the other benefits, you know, it's fantastic for the nervous system, it's fantastic for your glandular system, these rhythmic movements, you know, moving the lymph and you know, that just really help to help you maintain your your your body, help you, you know, live, live well, you know. And it's not to say that other styles don't do any of that. They certainly do, but I think those probably are the three hallmarks of what it can do for you. Like really move the energy and support the nervous system and the glandular system.

Daily Practice And Staying Grounded

Peter Kolakovic 34:29

This is a quote I found. It's a well-known one from the Bhagavad Gita. Yoga is the journey of the self through the self to the self.

Devinder Kaur 34:40

It's gorgeous, isn't it? Yeah.

Peter Kolakovic 34:42

It certainly is.

Devinder Kaur 34:43

Yeah.

Peter Kolakovic 34:44

How does that resonate with you? What I love that quote. What sense do you make of that?

Devinder Kaur 34:47

Yeah, I love that quote because it means yeah. I to me, well, to me, it means, you know, it's through yoga that we can really understand ourselves. It's through the practice that we can really learn to understand ourselves. And and the tricky thing about being a human being is that we're changing all the time. You know, every day we're having different experiences, different things are happening for us. But the one thing that can stay steady is your practice. And then through your practice, you're having this journey of the self through the self. Because, you know, we're here, you know, we're here having our life and we're living our life. And, you know, with this with a steady practice, and typically, you know, that's meaning like a daily practice, that, you know, this is where you're going to be able to come into that sense of yourself and really have an experience of yourself over time. I mean, if we don't spend the time every day to kind of check in with ourselves and see how we're doing, how do we know where we're going or where we're where we've been? You know, you the living your life sort of on autopilot, going day to day, or being consumed by all that is happening outside of us without looking inside, we miss the journey. We miss the journey of the self to the self.

Peter Kolakovic 36:12

So you mentioned a daily practice. Yeah. Do you have a daily practice? I do have a daily practice. What does it look like?

Devinder Kaur 36:20

My daily practice is a little bit different every day.

Peter Kolakovic 36:22

Okay.

Devinder Kaur 36:23

But my daily practice is 30 minutes or more if I can, but it's never really less than 30 minutes. And I will do something a little bit different every day. You know, I try to practice on most of the days of the week the things I'm going to be teaching that week. So it gives me an opportunity to embody and experience what I'm going to be teaching, which I think is important. And then I could be doing like this morning, I did 30 minutes of chanting. Yesterday it was 30 minutes of postures. If I'm not feeling well, I might just be lying there on the floor listening to mantra music or listening to a fantastic podcast such as this, you know. But I, you know, I try to pick things that are supportive to what I need at the time, that are uplifting. It's not kundalini every day. I do different things. I might, you know, do a few yin postures, but I'm doing something every day.

Peter Kolakovic 37:27

Okay.

Devinder Kaur 37:27

That supports me in what I feel that I need to do in the day, you know, that prepares me for my day. I my practice is always in the morning. So I get up, get changed, go to the bathroom, whatever. But this is like before tea, before eating, and this is when my practice takes place. It's before the day gets going.

Peter Kolakovic 37:50

Yeah. And so I mean, you you certainly come off as a very grounded, balanced person.

Devinder Kaur 37:57

Oh, I hope so. Thank you.

Peter Kolakovic 38:00

I'm I I'm sure like everyone else, you have, you know, moments.

Devinder Kaur 38:04

You have your moments, yeah. Absolutely.

Peter Kolakovic 38:06

So what do you do on those days when you feel less than motivated to get on?

Devinder Kaur 38:10

I do a harder practice.

Peter Kolakovic 38:11

You do a harder practice.

Devinder Kaur 38:12

I do a harder practice.

Peter Kolakovic 38:14

Wow. So what does that mean? What does that look like?

Devinder Kaur 38:16

That's not to say like I I figure that out right off the out of the gate. No. I realize that like if I if I've got something like super challenging going on, or I have to do something difficult or something, you know, that's going to be quite demanding that day, that morning I do a stronger practice, harder meditation, arms up, because that's you know something that Gunalini Yoga is known for, is a lot of arm work.

Peter Kolakovic 38:46

Right.

Devinder Kaur 38:47

But that's what I'll do, like a strong mantra, or you know, it won't be all, you know, relaxation and just rolling around. It's going to be something really, really fortifying, you know, to really help, you know, meet the challenge of the day, do something that your practice has that same energy and vibration that you need to bring to the day.

Peter Kolakovic 39:10

That's uh that's very inspiring.

Devinder Kaur 39:12

It's in, you know, and I fig it took me a while to figure that out. That if I want to carry myself well through the day, like you know, if you have to do a challenging meeting or something like that, if I've got to I gotta meet that intensity with my practice.

Peter Kolakovic 39:30

So

From Reluctant Teacher To Studio Owner

Peter Kolakovic 39:31

you run a yoga studio, very successful one. Tell me about the transition from being a student to being a teacher and and you know, not just doing your own practice, but trying to impart whatever wisdom and knowledge you have and whatnot and what you've learned to others.

Devinder Kaur 39:54

Yeah. Well, I didn't get I didn't start practicing yoga with the idea to teach. I didn't want to teach. I didn't want to teach anything. I just wanted to go and learn and practice. And so I was a very reluctant teacher. It took a while actually for me to do that. But then once I started teaching, I was like, wow, this is super amazing. Because I was learning so much more by teaching than just staying in my own personal practice or just going to class. So I think it's teaching is a way to actually really learn a lot more. So my travel from student to teacher was not like sort of of my own making in a way. I was asked to, you know, come and cover a class. And I said, Well, no, I don't I don't do that. I just I used to go to classes. But then someone trusted you enough. Somebody thought it would be a good idea. So I said, Oh, okay, I'll I came and I taught the class. And it was fine in the end, but it it took that prod, you know, it wasn't me seeking it out necessarily. So and then I I taught you know, classes all over the place for for many, many years and carrying stuff all over the place as as you do, you know, when you're you're learning and you're getting out there and and teaching. But I was working full-time at the same time as doing that, you know, classes, two or three classes a week, so is pretty much what I was doing in different places, studios and community centers and gyms and church basements and wherever. And then I sort of got the idea that it was getting a bit much to carry all this stuff around everywhere. You know, you've got a couple big hockey bags full of bolsters and blankets and pillows and cushions and tea and cups and music players and candles, and you know, you got all this stuff that you're you're schlepping around everywhere. And I thought I'll think the best thing is to do is to get a little space, you know, small space. And that's what I set out to do. And then I realized, well, a small space financially is a bit restrictive. Right. So ended up with a bigger space and then a bigger space. So it grew sort of very organically, actually, because the whole my whole plan has never been to have a yoga studio or to teach anything. It was never on my horizon as, you know, one day I'd love to I that never ever came out of my mouth, you know. So it just really kind of took on a life of its own.

Peter Kolakovic 42:48

Interesting, very interesting. Yeah. Um it what strikes me is that, you know, as you said initially, you went into this kundalini class, you didn't like it.

Devinder Kaur 43:00

Although that part, yeah, just no, I didn't like that part.

Peter Kolakovic 43:02

Yeah, you didn't like it, and yet you came back and you ended up falling in love with it. You didn't want to teach, but opportunity presented itself. So you just kind of flowed with Yeah, I did.

Devinder Kaur 43:14

I just kind of flowed with what was going on, and it didn't I didn't really put a lot of concern into it or worry about it. I just thought, let's, you know, just let's see how things evolve, let's see how things happen, you know, and we'll just roll with it.

Peter Kolakovic 43:31

Right.

Devinder Kaur 43:31

Yeah.

Peter Kolakovic 43:32

It's really fascinating though, because you know, we're we're we're taught to to plan ahead and you know, conceptualize how we want our life to go and make plans and set objectives. And yet here you just kind of follow the natural course of things, and yeah, you you seem very happy.

Devinder Kaur 43:51

Yeah, I am very happy. Yeah, I'm I'm very happy of how things have turned out, you know, and thankfully, you know, things did work out. You know, I my my you know, growing up, my I didn't practice yoga. I didn't come into yoga un until I was an adult. I mean, I'd done a few classes here and there, but really not much to speak of. And, you know, it was just an evolution, really, a very slow evolution that, you know, the more I learned, the more I enjoyed, the more I integrated into my life. You know, and yeah, and it's it yoga now is really a hundred percent part of my lifestyle. It's how I live. You know, owning a yoga studio is not for the faint of heart. It's a difficult type of business to operate if you're trying to also embody some yogic values as well.

Peter Kolakovic 44:49

Sure.

Devinder Kaur 44:50

So that makes a it makes it a challenge. I have a business background, so that helps, you know, from my past careers that I've had. So that certainly supports it. It's kind of funny, you know, you realize as wherever you land that some of the steps along the way were actually very helpful for where you end up, you know.

Peter Kolakovic 45:13

Well, that's exactly where I wanted to go next.

The Business Of Yoga With Values

Peter Kolakovic 45:16

I was going to ask you about the business of yoga because there seems to be a bit of a tension between yoga as this spiritual practice versus you know a the financial component. The financial component, a business which is, you know, a you know a profit profit-making enterprise and comes with all sorts of different challenges. So can you can you talk a bit about that that tension?

Devinder Kaur 45:43

Yeah, there is a tension there. And you know, what do you do? You know, here we are in the society that we're in, in the in the structure that we're in. And folks want to learn about yoga, want to have an experience with yoga. People want to teach yoga, you know. You know, historically, is this how how it was done? No, this is not how it was done, but you know, here we are in our society that we have today, and this is the model that works in the society that we're in at the moment. So, you know, it's an interesting type of business to be in. That, like I was saying, you know, how do you what I try to do anyways is bring the as much yogic values forward into it as possible. You know, can we operate from a place of ahimsa, from a place of compassion? Can we operate from a place of satya, from truth? Can we do that? Which many businesses perhaps don't think about that kind of stuff. And that creates challenges, you know, if you know, there's a conflict in the workplace, how are we going to handle that? Can we handle that in in a more compassionate way or in a way that provides a better outcome for both parties? You know, so there's there's that going on as well as, yeah, you know, here we are, yoga, people are paying for classes, they're paying for trainings, but we also have to pay for rent and for utilities and to be able to house a space for people to have those kinds of experiences. So it's um it's an interesting dilemma. Yeah.

Peter Kolakovic 47:39

You uh you mentioned ahimsa. That was another thing that I had jotted down in my notes here. Um ahimsa being the Sanskrit term for nonviolence, one of the what is it, ten yogic principles, which are referred to as the yamas and niyamas. I I guess they're referred to as disciplines and restraints. Yeah. Kind of similar, kind of, to you know, the Ten Commandments from the Bible, a little bit different, but yeah, it's in that same same vein, yeah. Right. And Ahimsa, interestingly, was the principle that inspired Gandhi in his in his quest to free India from British colonial rule. I I I know it was something that that deeply inspired him and and and in turn Martin Luther King Jr. was then inspired by Gandhi and with his nonviolent non focus on nonviolence through the civil rights movement in the United States in the 1960s. So, in a way, you can say that yoga has inspired peaceful revolutions uh in two countries. And two of the most successful revolutions, I would say. Yeah, for sure. Probably because they adhered to the yogic principle of nonviolence.

Devinder Kaur 49:02

Yeah. How can we make the world a more compassionate place, a more fair and just place? Yeah, which is so relevant as it is today, and as always, right? You know, so yeah, you know, these values, you know, like you said, you know, they they pop up across many different wisdom traditions and faiths, and uh for good reason, right? This is, you know, we're always trying to improve ourselves and live in a way that can just bring a little bit more peace and kindness to everybody. And I think, you know, and there's a role for yoga studios and you know, to be a place of peace for people, please, place of refuge for people to escape whatever challenges they might have going on in their lives. So, you know, that's an important aspect of teaching. It's something we, you know, you try I try to bring, you know, into prana shanti from a business perspective. So there's another example of like how do we apply some yogic value, you know, to what we're doing on a day-to-day basis. And that can be really inspiring for people in their personal lives.

Peter Kolakovic 50:21

For sure. Yeah.

Lessons From Practice And Best Life

Peter Kolakovic 50:24

One more quote I wanted to share. This is from a yoga, I think he's a yoga teacher by the name of Jigar Gore. Yoga is not about touching your toes. It's about what you learn on the way to that's a good one, isn't it?

Devinder Kaur 50:41

Yeah, I like that.

Peter Kolakovic 50:42

What have you learned on the way down?

Devinder Kaur 50:44

Oh my god. Oh, what have I learned on the way down to touching my toes? Yeah. So much, you know. Yeah, just so much. Like I think one of the things that I think about like with yoga is it's a it's a very vast topic, right? It's it's so vast, you know. Forget about all the different styles. You know, the main premise is, you know, to to have an experience of yourself and and and really get to know yourself, you know, not the hats you you need to wear for different parts of your life or the roles you you you play in different aspects of your life or different years or times, but like who are you really? And I think that's one of the things that I've learned a lot more uh is about myself and you know, what I like, what I don't like, what I want to do and how I want to spend my time and what is of value to me. And it it really ends up being it's the simple things are really of what are is of value, you know, you know, time shared with good friends, you know, a shared laugh, you know, uh part way through the day, you know, all these kinds of little things is really what in the end is is valuable. And you know, striving and trying to obtain and do and be is something that you know I really let go of after a certain point in time. And you know, I guess that's one of the things you learn on the way down to touching your toes is that success can look very different than what you think it is.

Peter Kolakovic 52:30

Yeah. Wonderfully said. One last question for you.

Devinder Kaur 52:36

Okay.

Peter Kolakovic 52:38

The premise of this podcast is we're looking at how to live your best life. So what does that mean to you? How does one live their best life?

Devinder Kaur 52:50

Well, I think um living your best life is probably something that takes your lifetime to figure out. And blessed are those that figure it out sooner, you know. That, you know, I think we all land in this particular lifetime that each of us are in with a certain set of challenges and and hopefully come through with a an experience that feels like a life well lived. And, you know, I think every day it's about, you know, getting up every morning and looking forward and knowing that, you know, today's gonna be a great day because I've opened my eyes and I'm here still and I'm gonna have another run at it. And we're not always gonna be perfect and we're always gonna be making mistakes. That's part of life, but we can learn from it and and we just get better and better at doing and being in life, which ultimately hopefully will lead us to living our best life because we're just gonna get better and better at it every day. I don't think it's about you know, the money or the things or the toys or the the chasing or the material aspects. That's that's all fantastic and that's great, and it fulfills to a certain point, but in the end, what really fulfills you is what actually makes you happy and what gives you the greatest joy. And if we can find that, then that's really living your best life. If you can find those the those things that give you the greatest joy, which are usually the things that you know that that kind of light you up from the inside and are not short-lived. So and that takes time and it takes maturity and it takes letting go and it takes a sense of openness and trust. Trust that it's gonna work out.

Peter Kolakovic 55:13

What a wonderful way to end this conversation. Thank you so much, Davinder.

Devinder Kaur 55:19

This is been these are awesome questions and great discussion.

Peter Kolakovic 55:23

You've had awesome responses and awesome insights. So thank you so much for for sharing all of your wisdom. You're you're uh you're an inspiration. This has been a truly uh wonderful experience for me. So thank you so much, Davinder.

Devinder Kaur 55:36

Thank you for very much appreciated. Great Mike, so I'm so appreciative as well. And I look forward to hearing all the other amazing episodes you're going to have as well. So thank you.

Peter Kolakovic 55:46

Thank you so much.