#4 - Dennis Milling - Overcoming addiction: bending without breaking

Addiction doesn’t usually crash into your life all at once. It slips in as a shortcut to confidence, comfort, and connection, then quietly starts making your choices for you. Dennis Milling knows that progression firsthand, and he’s blunt about what alcohol took from him, what denial sounded like in real time, and why trying to “drink responsibly” became a losing game he kept replaying.

Dennis walks me through the pivotal moments that finally forced clarity: the relapse after a long sober stretch, the way alcohol showed up in his marriage, and the phone call that made him realize something had permanently changed. From there, we get into what long-term sobriety actually requires, including a simple rule that protects everything else: no first drink. We also talk about codependency, fear, and the hard emotional work of rebuilding self-respect after years of numbing out.

The most hopeful part of Dennis’s recovery story is what he built in place of alcohol. He learned to fly a plane, then found a daily anchor in yoga, breathwork, and mindfulness. We dig into why yoga can be a powerful tool for addiction recovery, how linking movement to breath creates a moving meditation, and how practices like Kundalini yoga and Tai Chi can help you feel connected to your body again. Dennis also shares how gratitude, a practical definition of faith, and self-forgiveness turned recovery into something bigger than abstinence.

If you’ve been questioning your relationship with alcohol, dealing with relapse, or searching for tools beyond willpower, this conversation is for you. Subscribe to My Best Life, share this with someone who needs it, and leave a review to help more people find stories like Dennis’s. What’s one change you could make today that your future self would thank you for?

https://www.doyou.com/a-story-of-yoga-transformation-and-addiction/

https://www.facebook.com/dennis.milling

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Preview

Peter Kolakovic 0:00

Hello everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. My name is Peter, and you are listening to My Best Life. On today's episode, I am speaking with Dennis Milling on overcoming alcohol addiction. Dennis was a really, really fascinating, interesting, and inspiring guest who is very, very forthright about his previous struggles with alcohol addiction. He's been clean and sober for over twenty years now and carved out an entirely new path for himself. And so, yeah, we talk about his struggles before he got clean and sober, some of the defining moments that led him to recovery, including his wife of many years, who finally confronted him and the insightful lessons that he gathered along the way. So he talks about his early experiences with alcohol, starting from a young age and the thrill of drinking at a party, and I'm sure that we've all been there. I know that I've been there. Alcohol is often that social lubricant that makes all of us, or some of us in any event, open up more than we normally would. Of course, for others, it has different effects. Some people can can become much more aggressive and and even violent. And I've heard it said that in spite of all of the focus on drugs like fentanyl and opioids and stuff like that, which, you know, have have wreaked their own havoc on society, it is in fact alcohol, which is by far the most destructive drug in the world, at least in the West. So, of course, every recovery journey has pivotal moments that can either serve as turning points or setbacks. And for Dennis, it was a series of realizations that led to his ultimate decision to quit drinking. As I said, one of the one of those significant moments was when his wife confronted him, and he says very frankly that in that moment he realized that something had changed and that it was different this time. And and somehow he found the courage and the strength to quit cold turkey. He promised never to drink again, and for more than 20 years now he's he's kept that promise and he built a new life. He dived into well, the first thing that I think he said he did was he learned how to fly a plane. Because, you know, apparently that's what you do when you when you quit drinking, you learn how to fly a plane. So I I found that just yeah, really inspirational. And then he went on to really dive into the world of yoga. At first, not very willingly. In fact, it was very reluctant, but as soon as he he did experience what it felt like to connect, to use his breath to connect his body and mind, he was told. It was love at first sight. So it's a really uh really fascinating and again very inspiring story that he shares. What else can I say? It's a it's a really, really insightful conversation. As I said, Dennis is is very frank about some of his struggles. In fact, he's he's written about some of his struggles, and there will be a link to his story in the show notes. We chat not just about alcoholism, but you know, the road to recovery, his his yoga practice and how that changed his life, his definition of faith, and his connection to that higher power, higher whatever you want to call it. Some people call it God, the universe, the source. But it's obvious that Dennis is someone who has learned a lot from his from his struggles and overcame those struggles, and is just so full of knowledge and wisdom and uh and compassion and wants to share his story with the world so that others may benefit and hopefully avoid some of the same mistakes that he made. So that's uh that's a a summary of of the episode, but please do give it a listen. Please, if if it resonates with you, please like it, share it, subscribe, you know, all that jazz. And we look forward to seeing you again soon. Here is my conversation with Dennis Milling.

Addiction As A Monster

Peter Kolakovic 5:29

Dennis Milling, welcome to the podcast. It's a pleasure to speak with you.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Thank you, Peter.

Peter Kolakovic 5:36

I wanted to start with this anonymous quote that I found online, and it's it's all about addiction. And I'm gonna lay it out for you. Addiction is a monster. It lives inside and feeds off of you, takes from you, controls you, and destroys you. It is a beast that tears you apart, rips out your soul, and laughs at your weakness. It is a stone wall that stands to keep you in and the rest out. It is a shadow that always lurks behind you, waiting to strike. Addiction lives in everyone's mind, sitting, staring, waiting. How does that sit with you?

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Sounds about right. You know, it's it's funny.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

I I quit drinking over 20 years ago. And truth be told, I didn't think I could quit because it had been part of my life since I was 14, except for a period of 14 months when I when I went cold turkey and stopped drinking. But I always wanted to prove to the world that I could drink responsibly. And once you've been to the depths of Helden back, you realize that if alcohol is your drug of choice, then there's no way that you can consume alcohol. Speaking for myself, of course. No way that I can drink alcohol responsibly without struggling to drink responsibly. It just, as you, as you said, it's a monster, and it's uh it absolutely just takes over, and it doesn't happen instantly. I think back when I was 14 when I had my first drink at a friend's place, who's having a party, a bunch of kids, and I drank some Southern Comfort, and I liked it. I liked it. Uh it was like the conversation flowed easily, and I felt like I belonged in a in this group. And I'd moved around a lot as a kid. Uh my parents split up due to my father's infidelity. And I went to nine schools in three cities. So I learned that uh if I wanted to, you know, hang out with the cool kids, I had to act like the cool kids. And unfortunately that that included some uh some behavior that's uh that took over my life.

Peter Kolakovic 7:59

Interesting.

Why Alcohol Felt Like Belonging

Peter Kolakovic 8:00

You've you've kind of already hinted at the answer to the next question I was I was going to ask you. And the and the question is if alcohol was the solution to a problem you had in your life, what was the actual problem?

SPEAKER_01 8:17

I think like most people, probably some insecurity being fed by, you know, moving around a lot. And watching my, you know, my my older sibling who who moved with with my dad and myself, and my younger brother, who was a half-brother, he struggled socially, and I didn't. My brother, my older brother just immersed himself academically and did as well in school as he could, and you know, ended up with two university degrees. I took a different path altogether. I like to be social and I ended up being sales, and I did quite well in sales. I just retired a year ago. But you know, with uh with that type of type of social activity in sales, you're interfacing with people and you're out drinking a lot and you know, trying to be comfortable with them and do what they do. And that became a heavy load to bear as as the addiction just became more and more of what I was doing. And then I found myself making up excuses to justify my behavior and of course a lot of denial to go along with that. And it's it's really no way to live.

Peter Kolakovic 9:24

What were the excuses that you were making?

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Well, the most the most common excuse is you know, people that have addictions, a lot of them are in denial about it. And you just you you tend to find making the excuses to justify your behavior. Well, I'm I'm having a drink because I'm having a rough day. Or that could be I'm having a drink because I'm having a great day. There's always an excuse to do something you want to do, and there's always an excuse not to do something you don't want to do.

Peter Kolakovic 9:54

Having listened to a few different people talk about addiction, one thing that is often referred to as is, you know, an underlying need that is being that is not being fulfilled. So when you look when you look back at the height of your addiction, what do you think it was that you were actually searching for?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

I really didn't give it much thought about searching for anything. It's just something I I fell into and it's you know at that point I didn't have to didn't have to face how I really felt about things. I just put them on the back burner and and just dump my dumbed myself down and didn't face didn't face my reality until uh until I made the hard choice to to put this monster behind me. And at that point, I had some work to do. And it's actually uh it's been quite liberating. And I've gone from being a bad example to being a good example, and you really don't know what kind of effect you have on other people, positive or negative, until you step back and look at it with a clear lens.

Peter Kolakovic 11:04

So looking back, was there a defining moment? Was there a clear bottom for you? And how did that moment, if there was one, become a foundation for rebuilding your life?

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Well, there was more than one. I met my wife in 1990, and I was, we were both 31 at the time, and I had been, you know, I had been living on my own since I was 18, and you know, dated busloads of women and had lots of fun and spent lots of money and did lots of crazy things. But we weren't together long, and I knew she was the one for me. I just I just felt differently about her. And, you know,

Excuses Denial And Confabulation

SPEAKER_01 11:45

truth be told, I was kind of sick of my careless lifestyle too. I really wasn't going anywhere quickly. I was just spending money and doing stupid things. And it didn't take long before she realized that I had a drinking problem. So I told her in my less than sober state at that time that that I was gonna quit. I said I quit. And I poured my beer down the drain and we went to bed. When I woke up the next morning, I was replaying it in my mind and I was hoping that she didn't remember. But that's that's the denial creeping in again. Denial. Right. I heard I heard from a a yoga teacher slash addictions counsel, addictions counselor, who told me that denial isn't actually an acronym, and it stands for don't even know I am lying.

Peter Kolakovic 12:33

So interesting.

unknown 12:34

Yeah.

Peter Kolakovic 12:34

I haven't heard that one before, but uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

I love it. It's appropriate. So, you know, as humans, we can justify anything on our minds. If we tell ourselves something over and over and over again, we believe it. Doesn't matter how crazy it is. It's called confabulating. You make up a story based on how you feel about something, and then you make that story so it fits your narrative, and then you go to, you know, you go to market with it, and that becomes a story. And that's why you can hear people say the most ridiculous things, and they say it with, you know, they actually believe it themselves because they've convinced themselves. And that's that's one of the weaknesses of the human mind. We we uh we tend to get emotional about things and logic goes out the window. So that was so that was rock bottom number one, but that wasn't a that wasn't a hard, hard rock because at that point I quit drinking. And I quit drinking for 14 months. Never had a drop. But the difference between then and now is I wanted to drink again. But I kept it to myself. I thought, you know, I'm gonna I'm just gonna put some time here and you know see how it goes. And once I feel that I've got it under control, then we'll just take it from there. And that's exactly what I did. My wife and I went to Cancun and checked in the room. And remember, I've been sober for 14 months, didn't have a drop. And checked in the room, she's in the room unpacking her stuff, and I said, Would you like a drink? And she said, sure. So I said, What would you like? She said, Surprise me. So I surprised her all right. I went down to the bar bar, I ordered her a margarita, and while he's making the margarita, I said, uh, and dos tequiles and uno cerveza porfor. So we made her a margarita, put two shots of tequila on the counter. I threw them both back and I chugged the beer, let out a big belch, went back up to the room and opened up the door. And as soon as I opened the door, she smelled it. And she looked at me with horror in her eyes. And she said, she said, You've been drinking, haven't you? And I said, Yeah, but I'm sure that I'm sure I can handle it. And she was so mad she was gonna, she was ready to go back to the airport. And this is like we had just got there after, you know, a long day of travel. But that's how adamant she was and how upset she was, because she knew I was a shit show. So anyway, I managed to, you know, as I said, I was in sales, so I managed to I managed to talk her into just, you know, just just take it easy. We're here on holidays and we'll just see how it goes and I'll, you know, and I'll keep it under control. And that became a struggle for the next 14 years. The next 14 years, it was sometimes that was good and sometimes that was terrible. And the turning point, the actual biggest rock bottom was my wife went out to Alberta because one of her brothers was in rehab for for cocaine addiction. And she drove up to Grand Prairie from Calgary with her mother after flying to Calgary from Ottawa. And she phoned home. You know, they're two hours behind Ottawa in Alberta. So she phoned home. It was about 10:30 Ottawa time. I'm in the garage and I'm, of course, I'm drinking beer, the kids are in bed. Dog and cat are fed, the horses are fed, life's good. I'm having a couple of wobbly pops. And she phoned. Back then, uh, you know, this is this is quite a while ago. I had a, you know, we all had landlines back then. I had a phone in the garage because I had a friend that worked for Belly put a phone in the garage for me. Phone rang, I picked up the phone and we started talking, and it wasn't long into the conversation. She said to me, She says, Have you been drinking? So guess what I said?

Peter Kolakovic 16:05

Denial, of course.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

No, no, yeah, no, yeah. Well, the conversation was pretty well over at that point.

Peter Kolakovic 16:13

So she she knew just by speaking with you.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Absolutely. Well, you know, just like you would know, and I would know if I haven't been drinking, and I would know if someone's been drinking, you know, because they don't sound the same, you know.

Peter Kolakovic 16:24

Right, sure.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

You know, slurring a little bit, you know. So, and she knew me well enough because we'd been together at that point, we've been together for 16 years. So she knew when I was less than sober, which was that time, and she was pissed, you know. Here I am home with her with her babies, you know, and she's in Alberta, and I'm, you know, I'm half in the bag again. So anyway,

Relapse In Cancun And Consequences

SPEAKER_01 16:50

as soon as I hung up the phone, I realized that something had changed. Something had changed. It was different this time. It wasn't a, you know, it wasn't a screw you, screw you this time. Something had changed. She had seen something, she had experienced something that had changed the way that she perceived our relationship. And I knew at that point in time that I had to put my big boy pants on, or we were done, and I was gonna have to walk out the door when she got back. So I quit drinking right then and cold turkey. That was it, boom, done. She came home two days later and she walked by me like I wasn't even there. So obviously she knew I wasn't off the hook. So uh I gave her her space, she went out to the barn and fed the horses, and then uh I gave her about 10 minutes and I went out to the bar and I walked up to her and I said, uh, I said, I feel like there's a wall between us. And she spun around and she says, I just went through the most gut-wrenching episode of my life, watching people from all walks of life try to turn their lives around. And she says, I phone home and you're messed up again. So she says, I realized two things at that point in time. Number one, she says, Not only are you in denial, I'm in denial too. It's called codependency. She was in denial about me because she was, you know, she wanted it to work. So she was found herself justifying my behavior, you know, to family and friends too, defending me because, you know, it wasn't pretty all the time, you know. And number two, and she says, uh, when the kids are when the kids are out of the house, you and I are done. And that was it. And I looked at her and I realized I broke her heart. And I realized I realized she didn't deserve it. So I looked at her and I said, you know what? I said, I'm a fucking idiot. I said, I don't make too many promises in my life, but uh tell you right now, I promise I will never drink again. And that was it. We hugged and we cried, and I haven't had a drink since, and that was 20 and a half years ago. Never look back. That's it, done. You know, when you talk about you talk about the monster that addiction is you don't realize what you're in when you're in it, because you tend to normalize whatever it is. You know, my my messed up childhood, you know, I figured every kid was brought up the same way I was, because that's all you know. And I realized I had a 2,000-pound elephant on my back that I had been carrying around for a long time. But I didn't realize it was there because it had been there for so long. But as soon as I said I quit drinking, and I meant it, I meant it. For the first time I actually meant it. That elephant climbed off my back and I felt light. I felt light. It was like, wow. But I'm smart enough to realize that elephant has never taken its eyes off me. You know, I if I turn around fast enough, I can almost see it. I know it's there.

Peter Kolakovic 19:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

And all I have to do is take the plug out of the drug and have one drink, and it's like I I don't, I I just wouldn't do it. That's all. I just have too much self-respect and I've come too far and I've learned to live my life without it. And I had to learn how to do everything all over again. You know, the dance floor seemed like a really foreign place for a while, you know, until uh, you know, everybody else is having fun at the dance floor, and I'm sitting there because I didn't feel comfortable dancing because I didn't have didn't have my you know shot tequila and a couple beers in me.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

But but eventually, you know, that's just you know, as I said, it's part of the excuses. Like, am I gonna condemn myself not to have fun because I'm not having a drink, or am I gonna get on with my life, get my head out of my ass, quit just feeling sorry for myself, and get on with life. You know, one thing I heard about addiction, an addiction is like giving up everything for one thing. And recovery is giving up one thing for everything, and that's absolutely true. And my wife told me when I quit drinking, she says if you quit drinking, your life will get better. And she was absolutely right. Absolutely right. Absolutely, you know. I was afraid, I was afraid, and it was only when I ripped the band-aid off I realized I had nothing to be afraid of, you know, and and fear paralyzes people. The number one reason people don't do great things in their lives is fear. You think of a great idea and then you you take all your energy talking yourself out of it, you know, without even giving it a chance. So I spent lots of time thinking about things, thinking about how to explain things to guys, because I find guys are a little harder to explain stuff to than women. Women tend to get stuff on an emotional level, and and guys, uh a lot of guys they just don't want to go there emotionally and seem weak. So I think so I think of analogies, and I thought of a great analogy for drinking.

Peter Kolakovic 21:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Or or any addiction for that matter. So let's imagine it's the middle of summer and it's a beautiful sunny day, and you're sitting in a you're sitting in a chair on the beach, and you get up and you grab one of your kids' plastic pails, and you you go over the lake and you fill that pail full of water, and you walk back onto the beach where the sand is dry and you pour it in the sand. So what happens? You know, first thing that happens is you know, you have a little puddle in the sand, and then as the water absorbs in the sand, you can see the the color where you pour the water is darker. And then eventually it goes about the same color as the sand. It takes time, but it leaves a bit of a leaves a bit of a dip in the sand. So you can see where you you can see where you poured that bucket of water. So get another bucket of water and pour it in the same place. Well, same thing happens, but that hole gets a little bit deeper. So go get a big pail, get a garbage pail, pour it in the sand. You'll never fill that hole. That hole gets deeper and deeper every time you pour more water on it. And that to me is an analogy of an addiction. You keep pouring water in the same spot, you keep pouring beer in your body, or whatever else you shouldn't be doing. And that hole just gets deeper and deeper and deeper.

Peter Kolakovic 22:43

It's a very uh very interesting and poignant analogy and and spot on. The it's it's a funny thing. The the quote that you mentioned just a minute or two ago about alcoholism is to give up everything for one thing. I actually have that in my notes as well. I was going to mention that. Alcoholism is to give up everything for one thing, sobriety is to give up one thing for everything. Yeah, but you beat me to it.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

And and sobriety gives me everything that alcohol promised me.

Peter Kolakovic 23:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Yeah.

Peter Kolakovic 23:20

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So let's so you you've talked about you know your turning point, how your wife eventually, you know, confronted you, and how that forced you to change. So now you know you're you're in the early days of your sobriety. So, how do you then navigate that space, that sudden silence that alcohol used to fill?

SPEAKER_01 23:47

That's a great question, Peter. And I had to figure this out myself. You know, as I said, I've I've been alcohol free. To me, sober sounds

The Phone Call That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_01 23:55

sounds like it's not fun. But alcohol free is to me that makes more sense because I'm free from alcohol. To me, sober sounds like I'm not having fun, but I'm having fun. I'm having more fun than I ever had. And I re and I remember it all. So so what did I do? You ever have a dog?

Peter Kolakovic 24:13

I do not have a dog.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Have you ever had a dog? Very briefly. Okay. So I've had dogs for most of my life, and I know every time we have to say goodbye to a dog, it hurts like hell. And the only the only thing that seems to make it a little bit better is to go get another dog. And, you know, and you fall in love with that new dog, and it becomes part of your life, part of your family, you know, and then you you tend not to fixate so much on the dog that's gone. You don't forget about it, but it kind of takes the it kind of takes the the the sharp edges off it off our memories. So what did I do when I quit drinking? I learned to fly an airplane. And it's and it's something I had wanted to do since I was a kid. Every time I, you know, and I still do it, every time I hear a helicopter or a plane, I look up in the sky because I love aviation. You know, I've been doing that ever since I was a kid. I will stop what I'm doing anytime and look in the sky. And I'll probably be able to tell you what kind of aircraft it is, too, because I just it's one of my one of my big interests. So, and I remember, you know, in my 20s telling my dad um I wanted to learn to fly, and you know, and he said, Do you think you can stay sober long enough to learn to fly a plane? Ha ha ha ha. You know, chuckle, chuckle, chuckle. Yeah. And I didn't take that as a vote of confidence. I took that as a I took that as a slight. And I was offended, but it was absolutely true. And at the point in time, the question was absolutely no. But once I took alcohol in my life, it's like, oh, here we go. Here's my here's my chance. Okay. So I did. I learned to fly a plane right away. I took up right away. I went to the auto flying club and picked up the ground school books. I met with a gentleman I used to work with who was a flying instructor there, and I learned to fly an airplane.

Peter Kolakovic 25:59

Fantastic. Wow, that's that's incredible. So, what what type of uh planes were you learning to fly?

SPEAKER_01 26:08

I learned to fly one type. I actually flew two types, but I but I did you know the bulk of my training in a Cessna 150, which is you know, it's a little two-seater putt-butt. Right. But it flies. And all the guys that are flying the big jets that we go on our holidays, it they all started the same way. They all started flying those little planes too. We all started the same way.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Now, right now I took up flying at 46, so it was way too late to make a career out of it. But uh that's okay. I that's okay. I I flew for a few years. I got about a hundred hours, I flew about a hundred times, checked the box, and then uh, you know, I moved on to yoga. And that was another thing that's another thing that's you know, uh a healthy alternative to right.

Peter Kolakovic 26:48

And and we'll we'll get into that next. But I did want to ask you. So during your recovery phase, besides you know, learning how to fly a plane, did you turn to support groups, alcoholics anonymous, anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 27:03

I did initially. Remember, I told you I quit drinking for 14 months. Right. Yes, yeah. That was that was in 1990. I went to a few meetings. We were living south of Ottawa at the time, uh, in a small town, and I went to a few AA meetings. But I I don't know, I just I didn't feel like I belonged there. Probably a bit of denial in there too. I thought, you know, I I got this under control. And you know, and I'm pretty I'm you know, I'm pretty steadfast when I when I say I'm gonna do something and you can take it to the bank. You know, I meant it. I quit. Boom, I quit. But as I said, I wanted to prove at some point that, you know, I can do this and I can do this right. I've got this beat. And unfortunately, that's that was a failed experiment. And when I quit drinking for good 20 and a half years ago, I didn't go to meetings. I've been to a couple of meetings since on invitation from a you know a friend of mine who who's been in the program for I'm gonna guess maybe 10 years or so. And he asked me if I would go to uh to a couple of meetings uh you know and speak, which I did. And I was quite quite well received. And I spoke at I went to sobriety house too. I contacted them and and offered to go speak there. So it was it's not something I'm I'm adverse to doing as far as going to meetings myself regularly. Maybe I'm selfish because um I had a customer that said, well, if you know, if guys like you don't go to the meetings, who's there for the who's there for the new guys?

SPEAKER_03 28:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Um and he he's absolutely right. But you know, I live pretty far out of Ottawa right now. But as I said, uh we're renting an apartment in Ottawa shortly, so I will have some flexibility and I'll be there more often. So, you know, I will probably start going to uh you know the odd meeting there too, just to just to be relevant to get my word out, not not going for myself because I'm afraid I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna relapse because I won't.

Peter Kolakovic 28:57

But to help others.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Exactly. Yeah, sure. It's not about me. And that's why uh, you know, I wrote a story about yoga addictions, which I which I I went public on in 2013. And you know, and it's for that too. It's not for me, it's for it's for other people because there's lots of people out there that are lots of people out there that are doing things that aren't especially you know healthy.

Peter Kolakovic 29:20

Sure. So since you mentioned yoga and uh using yoga as as a tool on your recovery path, let's let's maybe dive into that a little bit. I found another quote online by someone by the name of Tommy Rosen, who's the founder of an organization called Recovery 2.0. And I take it his story is kind of similar to yours in that you know he turned to yoga on his recovery path.

Relearning Life Without Alcohol

Peter Kolakovic 29:50

And so he wrote, Yoga is the antidote to addiction by definition. Addiction is anything that separates us from ourselves, others, and a higher power. Yoga, meaning union, is the practice of coming back into that connection. How does that resonate?

SPEAKER_01 30:12

I agree. I agree. And uh, you know, someone who hasn't who hasn't experienced the union, yoga actually means to yoke. And I'm familiar with the the word yoke because when you're flying an airplane, you're holding on to a yoke.

Peter Kolakovic 30:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

And the reason it's called a yoke is because it controls two control surfaces, which is pitch, nose up, nose down, and roll, which is wing up, wing down. In the case of yoga yoking a human being, what you are, what you are yoking, what you're bringing together is your mind and your body. And the yoke, like what you hold on to in an airplane, the yoke in yoga is your breath. Your breath controls your mind, right controls your body. It's all about your it's all about your breath. And I didn't realize that until I was, you know, convinced uh by a close personal friend who had taken up yoga, knew that I quit drinking, and worked on me for two years to to do yoga with her. And finally I did. It was under duress. I would have rather put pins in my eyes at the time. But you know, you don't know what you don't know. And you know, I was a 40, I was a 48-year-old male in Canada. And back then in the you know, early 2000s, there wasn't a lot of 40-year-old, 48-year-old men that I knew that were practicing yoga. It's it's different now, but you know, times have changed.

Peter Kolakovic 31:38

So addiction is often talked about as as a kind of disconnection from the self. So, how has yoga helped you inhabit your body again after years of trying to numb it through alcohol?

SPEAKER_01 31:56

That's a great question, Peter. So, my first experience practicing yoga was in the Bahamas. So we had booked a trip to the Bahamas with our friends, and I had I had spent the last two years prior coming up with every excuse I could possibly think of why I didn't want to practice yoga with my friend, uh,

AA Meetings And Helping Others

SPEAKER_01 32:20

even though she was urging me, and she knew it would be good for me. But as I said, you don't know what you don't know. So we booked a trip to Bahamas, her family and my family. And as soon as we booked the trip to Bahamas, she asked me if I would do yoga with her in the Bahamas. And she got me because I didn't have any excuses. It wasn't like well, I wasn't busy working, I wasn't busy uh taking clients out or flying an airplane or or or or or or or doing yard work or whatever excuse du jour that I would use. So uh I said sure. But I was kind of hoping that I wouldn't have to. But you know, as it went, we got to Bahamas and first day there, I spent the morning walking around this island we were on with with the kids and came back for lunch. And after lunch, I was sneaking out the door to go down to the hammock that I saw, because I figured it was Siesta time. And I was halfway out the door, and my friend said to me, She says, Dennis, will you do some yoga with me now? And I'm like thinking, shit. She got me here. So I said, okay. So even though I'm thinking, yeah, as I said, I'd rather rather put pins in my eyes, but you know, I'm a man of my word. I didn't have an excuse, and I like I couldn't really say no without being a without being a dick. So uh so I went. We walked, uh, we walked down the stairs, we walked across the the little path down the dock to the ocean, and it was a beautiful sunny day. It was about 25 degrees Celsius with a light breeze, the sun was shining, and we walked out on this dock, which was, you know, probably 30 meters long, a nice long dock. And you could hear the waves lapping in the water underneath us off the rocks. And she said, okay, just turn and face me. And we started doing some gentle movements in unison. I just followed what she was doing and she made it easy for me.

Peter Kolakovic 34:25

So this was a one-on-one session?

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Correct. Okay. Just her and myself. Yeah.

Peter Kolakovic 34:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

And I was mirroring her movements, and she was going slow enough and easy enough that I didn't have difficulty keeping up. But every time we moved, there was a there was a breath connected to it.

Peter Kolakovic 34:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

And I didn't realize at the time, but when we moved forward or up, there was an inhale. And when we moved down or back, there was an exhale. Right. So move, inhale, move, exhale, which is a moving meditation. And I had never connected those two dots together before. You know, we breathe, we breathe thousands of times a day. Like I've heard like 18,000 times a day. We breathe thousands of times a day and millions of times in our life. But most people don't even realize that they're breathing. You go through life and you breathe, you're breathing as you're breathing as as little as you can just to stay conscious. We breathe autonomically. We breathe whether we know we're breathing or not. That's why we can sleep and breathe without dying. But as soon as I connected that, those two dots together, I yoked, I connected my breath with my movement. It was like, wow, this is freaking magic. And it was. And you know, we only did it for a few minutes, and she goes, That's enough for today. And I was thinking, geez, I'm just getting started. And right then I was like, I want to do this. I want, I want this to be part of my life. And it has been part of my life ever since, pretty well daily.

Peter Kolakovic 35:49

So so you

Yoga As Union Through Breath

Peter Kolakovic 35:50

were sold at the first interaction with yoga.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

As soon as I tried it, as soon as I actually connected the breath with a movement consciously.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

It was like, it was like, wow, this actually works. This is a moving meditation. Just like smoking is a moving meditation. Move inhale, move, exhale. Move inhale, move, exhale. But that's not the that's not the main reason people smoke, though. It's one of them. I figured this out too, as I said, I've been spending lots of time figuring stuff out. You know, stuff that I took for granted, never gave a moment's notice for years and years and years. Now I'm starting to, you know, rip the band-aid off, go deeper, and why are people doing this stuff? You know. And I think the biggest thing about smoking is it forces people to exhale more than they normally do. You know, most people don't really exhale, they just breathe shallowly. Right. Unless you're unless you're sighing, and then that's a big exhale. But smoking forces you to exhale more than you normally do. And in the long exhale is the relaxation.

Peter Kolakovic 36:53

Interesting. I I I've never heard that perspective, but I mean, as I think about it, it does kind of make sense.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Well, do the reverse. If you inhaled more smoke than you blew out, you choked to death.

Peter Kolakovic 37:04

Yeah. Quite possibly.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

It forces you to exhale more than you normally do it. You gotta blow that shit out of you. And there's your and there's your relaxation.

Peter Kolakovic 37:14

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

And that becomes an addiction too. You're not addicted to you know, people say, well, it's the nicotine. Uh well, okay, that's part of it. But nicotine isn't that addictive. Uh, you ever watched the show, mad uh, the show Mad Men?

Peter Kolakovic 37:28

I have not, no.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Okay. Well, Mad Men took place in the 60s, and these guys are advertising executives on Madison Avenue in New York. That's why it's called Mad Men. And, you know, of course, there was lots of tobacco advertising back then. Sure. Cigarette advertising everywhere. And they were talking about, I remember one of the episodes, they were talking about, you know, the fact that uh, you know, they've got to, they've got to come up with reasons to get people hooked more. So it was like, well, let's let's tell people that nicotine's more addictive than heroin. And people believe that. I, you know, they people still say that today. No, nicotine's more addictive than heroin. Bullshit it is, you know. The addiction, the biggest part of the addiction is, well, it's a ritual. You know, everybody that smokes smokes together. Everybody that drinks, drinks together. Let's go for a beer, let's go for a smoke, right? So it's it's uh it's a ritual thing. It's taking a break. How come only people that smoke take breaks? Yeah, let's let's take a break. You know, it's oh, it's time to go for a smoke. And uh, you know, as I said, it's uh it's a moving meditation. Move inhale, move exhale, which calms your mind, but it's the long exhale, and that's the that's the icing on the cake right there. It's all about your breath.

Peter Kolakovic 38:33

Right. Interesting. Coming back though to to your first experience with yoga, sounds like you know, it was love at first sight. So I I just I'm curious about how you then cultivated that that practice and that relationship with this with this, you know, what some people call science of the soul.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

I started off doing one class a week for a year, and that was Kundalini yoga. The first yoga that I practiced was kundalini, which uh, you know, if you haven't tried kundalini, one of the many things that I like about kundalini is when you walk in the class, you have no idea what you're gonna be doing. Whereas Bikram is the same 26 movements in the same order, in the same temperature room, and you can do it, you know, with your eyes closed, you know, and zone out. But, you know, as humans, I think that you know, we get more benefit out of you know switching things up and surprising ourselves than you know going on autopilot. And I know certainly for myself, I'm not an autopilot type of guy. I like to challenge myself, I like to do interesting things. And I just keep going back to Kundalini because it's it's magic.

Peter Kolakovic 39:48

So you're doing yoga every, what did you say, every week for a year?

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Yeah, I did it for a year and then we went away. We ended up buying a place in Bahamas on that little island that we visited in 2007. So we went to went went back to Bahamas and I went probably, I guess probably two weeks without doing any yoga. And I was starting to feel it, you know, Christmas time, you're eating too much and you know, eating the wrong things. I just I really felt like I missed it. So I went back and I started doing five classes a week and all different types. I bought an all-you-can-eat membership. Um and then I started doing six classes a week. And then I took up yoga teacher training, uh, akanda yoga, which is a form of hatha with chanting and meditation. Chanting is singing, it's something we do in Kundalini. Love it. And I I end up getting a certification for for Akanda Yoga, a form of Hatha. And then I I also got a certification for yin yoga. So I end up teaching yoga for several years, but I haven't taught a class since COVID. I hate to mention COVID because it's got such negative connotations, but you know, for me, it's all it's there's a few things I remember because of COVID, and that's one of them. I haven't taught a class since COVID. But but I still go. I I I uh I go

From One Class To Daily Practice

SPEAKER_01 41:10

to Kundalini once a week, and I have a daily practice as well. I'm also doing Tai Chi, I'm doing seniors tai chi with my wife pretty well daily.

Peter Kolakovic 41:18

Tai Chi is is also an interesting practice, something that I have kind of dipped my toes into. I I have much more experience with yoga. I'm I'm curious, you know, how how you see the two practices side by side. Because to me, it seems that there are many similarities, even if they are distinct practices. But I'm I'm curious to hear your perspective.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Well, yoga and tai chi, they both move energy. Right. It's about moving energy through your body from you know getting rid of stagnant energy. Now, our bodies are two-thirds water. If you can imagine pouring yourself a glass of water, so go over to your tap right now, pour yourself a glass of water, and put it on the put it on the kitchen counter for a week. Are you gonna go and drink it? In a week's time?

Peter Kolakovic 42:05

Probably not. No, why not? Stale, it's there you go. It's stagnant. Stagnant. Thank you. That was the word I was searching for.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

Oh, you're okay. So your body's two-thirds water. So sit in a chair for hours and hours and hours. What's happening to the water in your body?

Peter Kolakovic 42:24

Nothing. It's stagnant.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Stagnant, exactly. It's stagnant. Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's so it gets you moving. And I've got all kinds of other things I use too. I have an inversion table I hang upside down like a bat every morning.

Peter Kolakovic 42:37

Every morning.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Every morning.

Peter Kolakovic 42:39

For how long?

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Uh a minute or so.

Peter Kolakovic 42:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

And I've got some kettlebells. I do kettlebells upside down too. I've got a chin-up bar, I've got kettlebells, I've got small weights. I bought some of these battle ropes. They're actually springs that you shake. I've got this wedge that you stand on to stretch your stretch your Achilles tendon if you're if you're pointing upwards and pointing downwards, it stretches your knees out. So I've got all kinds of all kinds of gadgets and you know things. There's a there's a million ways you can move. And you know, I like to switch it up. I get bored easily, so I just have a bunch of stuff. And I have a chin-up bar too. I do chin-ups. And I'm 66. Like I'm pretty active for a guy my age.

Peter Kolakovic 43:21

Sure sounds like it. The inversions, uh, that's an interesting subject. Like yourself, I also did a couple of yoga teacher trainings in my case, and in it the through the one school that I studied with, which is called Akasha Yoga Academy, they heavily, heavily emphasize the importance of doing inversions with every practice. Because it it well, I guess it reverses the normal course of all of your bodily fluids and all that water that is otherwise stagnant if you're sitting around all day.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Yeah, and if you think of the way that the way that we've evolved. As humans from apes, if you believe in the theory of evolution.

Peter Kolakovic 44:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

Walking upright isn't especially good for circulation. Because all of our all of our valves, like for example, in your legs, they all get stressed in one direction.

unknown 44:16

Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

So when you turn upside down, you help balance that out. It's something I read when I was doing research on inversion. You know, I I tend to remember little things like uh little little nuggets. And one I remember about inversion, it's gravity is what ages you. Gravity is what ages you. I go, hmm, okay, that's good enough reason. I actually quite like it. It stretches your spine too. And I, you know, I had uh I went to chiropractor for 20 years for starting at 27. My my back and neck were so bad I could hardly walk at 27. So I went to the chiropractor for 20 years. And when I took up yoga, I haven't been to the chiropractor since.

Peter Kolakovic 44:54

Fantastic. Yeah, I I can only say similar things as someone who also struggled to some extent with an alcohol addiction for yeah, a good 15 years, I would say. Yeah, one of the things that I noticed is I would I would wake up with headaches, I would wake up with a stiff neck, sore shoulders. And once I quit the alcohol and and took up yoga, well, all of a sudden, no more headaches, no more stiff neck. So yeah, that that certainly resonates with me.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Well, there's there's no there's no limit to the benefits of being alcohol free. It really is poison.

Peter Kolakovic 45:37

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

I remember one of I remember one of my brothers telling me that when I was, you know, I was in my I was in my late 20s and I was I was on my way to Jamaica. I stayed at his I stayed at his place, his and his wife's place in in Oakville overnight, you know. And as we're driving to the airport, because you know, I I had lots of beers the night before. He he says, You realize that alcohol is poison, don't you? And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, whatever. You know. Didn't care, but it's absolutely true. I didn't, you know, I woke up feeling like shit every time I drank too much. But there's a cure for that. Just have

Tai Chi Inversions And Staying Active

SPEAKER_01 46:10

some more, huh?

Peter Kolakovic 46:11

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 46:12

And it's it's it's no way to live, it wreaks havoc on you. It really is nasty.

Peter Kolakovic 46:17

So you're now 20 years on from having given up alcohol. So in that time, obviously you've you've been practicing a lot of yoga. So, how do you find meaning in the more mundane, everyday moments of your life today? Perhaps in the past where you know you would have filled those moments with with alcohol. Besides yoga, what do you fill those moments with these days?

SPEAKER_01 46:51

In 2020, on March 13th, 2020, the world went home, as you recall.

Peter Kolakovic 46:56

Yeah. All too well.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Yeah. The world went home. And as I as I mentioned, I was in sales, and nobody wanted to see me all of a sudden. It was like, nobody wants to see me. I can't go anywhere. I had to have, you know, I live in Quebec. We had a it's called a couvre à feu, which is a curfew. And the and the literal translation for couvre de feur means cover the fire. And I and I didn't realize it right away. Cover the fire, it's time to go to bed, right? So you don't burn the house down. So I spent lots of time at home. My wife and I had a horse farm at the time. We had to, you know, even though we had a horse farm five minutes from our house, we had to be home by eight o'clock at night. So that kind of put a crimp in my lifestyle. I had taken my daughter about a year prior to a gentleman named David Hickey who plays bells, bowls, and gongs. And about two weeks later, she phoned me up and she goes, Dad, did you realize that 528 hertz is a frequency that heals you down to your DNA? I'm like, no, but thanks for that. So I started researching 528 Hertz because I'm always interested in all these esoteric things, you know, because I'm naturally a curious person and I don't know everything and I never will. But started researching 528 Hz. And the only thing I could find that would make 528 Hertz was a tuning fork. And I wasn't really into tuning forks back then. I've since bought some. But uh I saw, I saw when I was doing my research on tuning forks on YouTube, I was watching people play tuning forks, and I saw something called a jumpy jam, which is a small steel pen. And it's got eight notes on it. I'm watching these YouTube videos of this guy playing this jumpy jam, and it sounded like what I'd heard on the beach in Jamaica in 1989. So I thought, hmm, that sounds kind of cool. So I bought one. And after playing Deo Margaritaville and jingle bells all weekend, I realized, and not very well, I realized that this thing, this silly thing's only got eight notes. And if I want to go higher or go lower, I'm gonna have to buy something better. And I really like the instruments, so I started researching the bigger pans, and I couldn't decide whether I wanted to buy a lead tenor pan, which seemed to be what most musicians play, a single pan, or double seconds, which is two pans and a lower scale, some lower notes. And my inspiration is a gentleman named Bob Lyons, who's in Fort Lauderdale, and he met some Jamaican guys when, sorry, he met some Trinidadian guys when he was in California as a teenager, and they taught him how to play steel pans. So he'd been playing ever since, and he's got lots of YouTube videos, and so that was my inspiration. So I uh I ended up trading in my jumpy jam for a set of double seconds, steel pans, and I've been playing pretty well every day since, except for when I'm not home, of course. But when I'm home, I play it, I play every day. So how did I fill my time at home instead of instead of imploding and you know, and getting bad habits, like my boss said, you know, covert just gave a lot of people excuses to have bad habits. And I and I and I don't disagree with them. So, you know, I just instead of you know cultivating more demoting habits, I cultivated another promoting habit. And I became a musician, which I had never really been.

Peter Kolakovic 50:11

That's fantastic. So you're you're playing music, you're hanging upside down, you're swinging kettlebells. You've uh you've definitely come a long way in the last 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

I have, and and another thing that I've I've done. I read a book called Buddhist Bootcamp by Timber Hawkeye.

Peter Kolakovic 50:32

Okay, I'm not familiar with that.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Yeah, my mother-in-law gave me that book. Uh, my mother-in-law, who passed away uh a year ago, she was she was

COVID Habits And Steel Pan Music

SPEAKER_01 50:40

an amazing person. She just lived life large and put so many people together. I had so many great experiences with her. You know, not all of her ideas were great ideas, but we certainly had a lot of fun. But uh, she gave me that book, uh, which was it's a small book. And the book, uh basically at the start of the book, he said, this book is about gratitude. And the guy that wrote the book, he said that he was brought up in a very religious household and you know, God fearing. And if you don't believe in God and worship, you're gonna go to hell and all that stuff, you know. And he said at some point when he's a teenager, he rebelled against it and just started questioning everything. Why, why, why, why, why? So he wrote this book, which is about gratitude, and it's just a it's just a bunch of thoughts on different things. And one of the one of the subjects is faith. Now, all these all these thoughts that he have are they're one page or a page and a half. It's it's it's short and sweet. But his take on faith really stuck with me. Because if you ask people if they have faith, nine times out of ten, they'll they'll think you're asking if you're asking them if they believe in God or whatever higher power, Allah, Shiva, Jehovah, whatever. But instead of thinking it, thinking of it in that context, he says the way that he the way he understands faith is when you go to bed tonight, do you think you're gonna wake up tomorrow morning? Well, I don't know about you, but yeah, I'm already I'm already making plans for tomorrow. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

I have faith, I'm gonna wake up tomorrow. So that's faith. And as soon as I read that, I felt light. I go, wow, I like that. I can I I can I can live with that. Because I I struggled for a lot of my life about you know what I thought about God or a higher power, whatever. You know, and I've since just said, you know what, I don't know. But what I do know is there's something out there that's way more powerful than all of us that are here now, all of us that have ever been here, and all of us that will ever be here. And I have no idea what that is. I just know that when I think about God in that context is just something bigger than me, something greater, something good, I feel good. I feel light. I I don't feel like I've got the weight of the world on my shoulders. So what I do, I see the sun's gonna be going down here in like, I don't know, half an hour or so. I generally go outside around this time of day. Generally in bare feet, too. Even uh even in the winter, I'll go out in bare feet, you know, and I'll raise my raise my hands to the sky, I'll close my eyes and I'll look up and I say thank you to God. And there's no conditions on that. It's no not thanks for because of this or that or whatever. I just say thank you. And I mean it, and it feels good. So that's gratitude. We have so much to be grateful for, especially here in Canada. Oh my God. Yeah, you know, I hear people complain about the stupidest things, and I'm going, like, you really don't get it, hey. But when you've been to hell and back, you know, in my childhood wasn't great either. Uh, there was a lot of stuff there that, as I said, I uh I put on the back burner. But I realized in part of my you know my recovery, part of my uh unaddicting myself, that in order to forgive everybody that that hurt me, or that I felt hurt me rather, because it's always how you feel, right? Because no, and everybody hurts you, does it intentionally? Some do, some don't, just the way it is. I realized that in order to forgive others, I had to forgive myself first. So I let myself off the hook. I let myself off the hook for all the ridiculous, stupid, dangerous things, offensive things that I did when I was less than sober for whatever reason. It doesn't matter. You know, and I've heard so many people apologize. Well, you know, sorry, I got drunk last night, you know, and these are people that I used to drink with. Some of them are still doing it 20 years later, yeah. You know, and still apologizing for it. And I thought, and I thought a couple months ago, you know what? To me, sorry means you're not gonna do it again. If you're really sorry, you're not gonna do it again. If you're just trying to shut someone the hell up, then you say you're sorry just because you want them to shut up and leave you alone.

SPEAKER_03 55:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

But if you really mean it, if you really mean you're sorry, you're not gonna do it again. Doesn't matter what it is, right?

Peter Kolakovic 55:08

You brought up two really, really big themes there that that resonated with me. I mean, everything that you said resonated, but in particular, the concept of gratitude and and faith and and what that means exactly. I will say that in my own journey, I received the advice once to start a daily gratitude practice. So that's how I end all of my days. I say a little prayer. It's the last thing I do before going to bed, and I just say a little prayer, a little prayer of gratitude for all the things that I'm grateful for in my life and all the things that happened during that particular day that I'm that I'm grateful for. And it really does shift your perspective. And how do I express it? It it makes you well, it makes you much more grateful for the things that you actually have. It makes you realize how much we do actually have in our lives, you know, people that are surrounding us, our family, our friends, our loved ones, for myself. I'm I'm always grateful for all of the abundance in my life, and and there's a lot more than I than I realize at times. So, yeah, that that gratitude practice I think is is absolutely essential for for all of us.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

Feels good, too doesn't it?

Peter Kolakovic 56:31

It it absolutely feels great, and it's a wonderful way to end the day. It's a wonderful way to begin the day as well.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

Yeah.

Peter Kolakovic 56:38

And then you also

Gratitude Faith And Self Forgiveness

Peter Kolakovic 56:40

mentioned a definition of faith that that you had come across, and I've come across a slightly different definition, but I think the point is is kind of similar. And I don't have the quote in front of me right now, but it was something like when you come to the edge of all that you know and you're staring into the abyss, faith is the belief that when you step forward, you will either find solid ground or you will be taught how to fly.

SPEAKER_00 57:16

I like that.

Peter Kolakovic 57:17

Yeah, I really like that as well. I wish I could remember who who wrote that, but when I first read that a few years back, it it really, really resonated with me. And I was reminded of that as you were as you were speaking.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

And that also reminds me of another quote from a gentleman named Khalil Jabran, who was a Lebanese-American philosopher whose most famous uh work was a book called The Prophet, as in prophecy.

SPEAKER_03 57:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

And he says, We choose our joys and sorrows long before we experience them.

Peter Kolakovic 57:50

We choose our joys and sorrows long before we experience them. Can you expand on that?

SPEAKER_01 57:57

Can you expand on that? Sure, you're gonna have a good time. Hey, you're going you're going on a holiday. You gonna have a good time?

Peter Kolakovic 58:03

I hope so.

SPEAKER_01 58:05

Well, then you will, right? Right, sure. If you're thinking, oh shit, it's gonna rain, uh, drinks will be too expensive, you know. Yeah, you know, blah, blah. You're gonna have a shitty time. You'd be looking for reasons to have a shitty time just to justify why you think that way. Something I read uh recently about complaining. Complaining shrinks your brain. Complaining shrinks your brain. Yeah. I didn't know that, but it doesn't surprise me.

Peter Kolakovic 58:28

It doesn't surprise me either.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

Yeah, and you talk about uh, you know, abundancy. Something I learned through my yoga practice years ago. The universe is abundant.

Peter Kolakovic 58:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

Yeah, when you put limitations on yourself, you've already handcuffed yourself. Believe in big. Believe in big. My wife said my life would get better if I quit drinking. Well, I quit drinking, and uh, you know, first and foremost, my family's still together and they love me because I didn't screw it up completely. And my kids are, you know, my kids are old enough now, they don't really remember that part of my life because I, you know, I hid it well from them. My wife certainly remembers, but uh, you know, since since I quit drinking, well, I won uh won $100,000 on the lottery. I won a Rolex watch, I won a Jeep, we got a place in the Bahamas, you know, just it goes on and on and on. Those are like I can't explain it. I can't explain it. I'm being rewarded for you know for the path that I've taken and and paying it forward. And I I can't explain it. I'm the luckiest people that most people know. I don't know anybody who's won more stuff than I have.

Peter Kolakovic 59:39

So

Advice For Someone Still Drinking

Peter Kolakovic 59:40

there may be someone listening right now who is currently struggling with alcohol addiction. So what would you say to that person who feels that their life has lost all meaning due to their addiction?

SPEAKER_01 59:55

Yeah, well, find something you want to do more. Find something, you know, find a reason. Alcohol is a depressant, so it keeps you in that, you know, it it keeps you in that state of mind where you're feeling sorry for yourself. You know, basically get out of your own way. There is light at the other at the end of the tunnel, but you know, it's not gonna, it's not gonna come and hit you in the face. You gotta go out and get it. You got to realize there's more to life than dumbing yourself down. You know, I'm 66 now. I'll be 67 next month. And you know, I don't know what kind of health I would be in or if I'd even be alive if I'd kept drinking the way I was when I quit 20 years ago. Probably not. I uh I can't predict, it doesn't really matter because you know the the point is I made it your body is dis your body is designed to heal, but you have to give it a chance. But every day you wake up, you're a little bit older. That's aging. You've got no control over that. You know, tomorrow morning when I wake up, I'm a day older than I am right now. But what you do have some control over is secondary aging. And secondary aging is all the stupid things you do to yourself that make you age quicker. What you think, what you do, what you eat, whether you exercise or not, who you hang out with, all that sort of stuff. That's secondary aging. So bear in mind if you're drinking heavily and you're addicted to alcohol, there's lots of secondary aging going on. And depending on how bad you are, it can be dangerous too. You can be doing stupid stuff. I could have been dead a thousand times from drinking. I'm lucky I'm not. I'm thankful I'm not. I thank God there's there's a reason for me to be here talking the talking right now that I wouldn't be if I was still drinking.

Defining Your Best Life

Peter Kolakovic 1:01:42

Dennis, one final question for you. This is a question that I ask all of my guests, it is as it is the theme of the podcast, which is titled My Best Life. So, what does it mean to to you to live your best life?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

Great question, Peter. I've come to the realization, I've been retired for a year now, almost, well, almost a year. Well, on the 15th, it'll be a year. I was in sales all my professional career. I got my first sales job when I was 20, selling cars. I had a dealership in Ottawa, and actually I I started off at the dealership washing cars because I didn't have any experience. I was a kid, and I was told by the gentleman who owned the dealership that if I wanted to sell cars, because I had no experience, I had to wash them first. So so for eight weeks I washed cars with uh you know with you know, keeping my eye on the prize, knowing that you know I'm not here to wash them, I'm here to sell them. So and I realized that I was pretty good at it. So I went from that to consumer electronics to to consumer sorry, to computer components, electronic components into hardware, software, professional services, artificial intelligence, cybersecurity, the whole gamut. But always in sales, and I really enjoyed being around people. I and I found that the last year that I've been retired, even though we have traveled, we went to we went to France for a month, we went to Portugal, we went to Mexico. I'm still spending more time at home by myself because you know I live, I live, you know, pretty far out of the city. I miss the human, I miss the human interaction day to day. So we are we are renting an apartment in Ottawa, which we're getting soon. So I will be, you know, I'll be I'll be able to be more social. And that's very important to me. So my best life is being social, spreading the fairy dust, leading by example, being positive around other people, and you know, making other people feel good, and then in the same turn, making myself feel good. We're all here to help each other, and I firmly believe that.

Peter Kolakovic 1:03:51

I firmly believe that as well. Dennis Milling, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. It's been a pleasure, and thank you for sharing your very, very inspirational story.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:04

Thank you, Peter.