#20 - Justin Shaw - Comic relief: why laughter is the best medicine

Laughter is supposed to be light, but Justin Shaw shows us how it can be life-saving. He built his identity on getting laughs, first as a kid trying to survive an emotionally empty home, then as a young stand-up chasing the rush of the room. But when the same need for relief collides with drugs and alcohol, the “high” starts taking more than it gives. Justin shares the moment that finally scared him straight: blacking out after a set and waking up with no memory of what he did, how he got there, or whether he even belonged on stage anymore.

From there, we dig into sobriety and what real healing looks like when detox isn’t enough. Justin talks openly about rehab, relapse, grief, and the way fear-based beliefs can intensify pain instead of easing it, especially as he faces his mother’s terminal illness and death. That breaking point pushes him toward meditation, yoga, and a more direct experience of spirituality that isn’t about rules, but about awareness, compassion, and choice.

Justin calls his awakening a “bliss attack,” a sober near-life experience that reframes consciousness and inspires his book Sourcery 101: 13 Rungs To A Higher Elevation Of Consciousness. We unpack practical concepts like shadow work, surrender, emotional alchemy, and why guided meditation can be the best first step if you don’t know where to start. If you’re interested in addiction recovery, spiritual awakening, emotional healing, and the surprising connection between laughter and mental health, this conversation gives you both story and tools. Subscribe for more conversations like this, share the episode with a friend who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Setup

Peter Kolakovic 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome back to My Best Life, the podcast where we explore the stories of people who have walked through adversity, challenged their assumptions, and discovered new ways of living with purpose, joy, and authenticity. Every conversation on this show is an invitation to look beyond the surface, to ask deeper questions about who we are, what truly matters, and how we can create lives that are not simply successful, but deeply fulfilling. Today's guest is Justin Shaw, and his journey is one that beautifully illustrates the surprising connection between laughter and healing. For years, Justin made people laugh as a stand-up comedian, entertaining audiences with sharp observations, quick wit, and the unique ability to find humor in the everyday. But behind the laughter was a much deeper journey, one of personal transformation, spiritual awakening, and the search for lasting peace. Like so many people, Justin discovered that while laughter can lift us in a moment, true healing asks us to look inward. Rather than running from life's challenges, he began asking what they were trying to teach him. That journey eventually led him to write Sorcery 101, that's S-O-U-R-C-E-R-Y, a book that explores consciousness, emotional healing, and reconnecting with what he calls Source. Drawing from his own experiences, Justin offers a perspective that encourages us to see life's struggles, not as punishments or setbacks, but as opportunities to awaken to a deeper understanding of ourselves. It's a reminder that healing isn't about becoming someone new, it's about remembering who we've always been beneath the fear, the pain, and the stories we tell ourselves. Over the next hour, we'll explore Justin's remarkable path from comedian to spiritual teacher, the insights behind Sorcery 101, the role of consciousness in personal transformation, and why laughter may be one of the most underrated tools for healing that we possess.

Why Laughter Lowers Fear

Peter Kolakovic 2:12

Charlie Chaplin, whose own life was marked by tremendous hardship, once said, A day without laughter is a day wasted. Justin, what does that quote mean to you today, and how has laughter shaped your own journey of healing and awakening?

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yeah, I feel laughter is there's so much healing in laughter, and I certainly don't go a day without laughter. And I I identify a lot with Charlie because he went through a a ton of stuff, and he the way he dealt with it was right through funny. And you know, there's so much healing in laughter, and I I call myself a mystical comedian because in order to kind of get people in the right energy to heal, you know, you know, the laughter is a great, is it's like a a sidestep, a shortcut to to write to that energy of healing. And then I've found that people are opening up and willing to listen more and accept, you know, kind of the ideas when they're in that energy. It's it's kind of like it's a bit like it's it the opposite would be, you know, if if you're in you know a medical room and a doctor walks in and says, I'm sorry, you have cancer. Well, you know, now you're in the energy of fear. So you're kind of you're only open to hear things that match that energy. So when that, you know, you ask the doctor, then how long do I have? Well, I have six months to live. And you're willing to accept that because you're in the energy of fear and you're willing to accept anything that matches that. You will only, you know, kind of surrender to the energy you're currently in. So, you know, the people that say no, that those those are the real, those are the sorcerers right there. But but getting people in that higher vibration of laughter and then bringing them in, that's the key.

Childhood Pain And Comedy Relief

Peter Kolakovic 4:01

All right. Well, we're gonna talk a lot more about laughter today, and and we'll get into your you know, your career as a stand-up comedian. But before we get into that, and the book that you eventually wrote, tell tell me about your you know, your life before being a comedian. Who who was Justin Shaw as a young man?

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Yeah, it's you know, I've always had that comedic bug. And it was because I kind of grew up in, you know, what I consider to be an emotional vacuum. And, you know, growing up, you know, my you know, my dad was around a little bit when I was younger, but you know, things were happening in that marriage. It was just toxic and not good. And, you know, dad was doing his thing, and and and and mom was just kind of she was she's a very stubborn person. She was very sweet, but very stubborn. And she she she was a high introvert. So she would spend a lot of time in her room, as especially as I got older. And and and I know now she was she was just in a lot of pain from what she went through as a child and and and and as an adult uh through the divorce. And I, you know, it was just her and I. The brothers and sisters are are much, much older. They were moved out, so it was literally her and I. And so, and with her kind of checking out sometimes, she just kind of these had these episodes where she just she just she just go in a room. And and and so I would just uh you know, I'd do my thing. So, and in that time in the 90s, you know, the pop culture is not quite what it is today. So what we had was, you know, the the the V the VHS and the you know the CDs, and you know, kind of a little bit later came the DVDs. But you know, when you found something you liked, you'd you'd watch it over and over and over again because we don't you don't have the kind of content that you have today where there's just just a lit, it's just there's so much stuff to watch on Netflix, Hulu, and just all that, and it's just constantly coming out. And we did not have that. So when you found something you like, you just watch it over and over and over again. And that that was me. I would tape episodes of Saturday Live, it would bring me out of my my pain. My mother didn't understand the concept of love, she really didn't. She didn't say the word very often, she didn't hug a lot, she she just was not that type of person. And since she was the only person, you know, and humans need that. I mean, you know, that biologically speaking, you know, the babies back in the 1920s here in America, they they used to, you know, the adoption agencies, they used to take in babies and and they were dying and they couldn't figure out why. They, you know, they were feeding them, they were making sure they got enough water and food and changing them. And biologically speaking, it you know, a living entity should should survive this. Well, they started picking them up and they started living. You know, humans are very, very different. We need love, we need connection, or or we die. So, you know, I didn't die, but it kind of in the inside I was. But so that's what brought me out was comedy. And I would watch Saturday Live and tape that, and you know, The Simpsons were on the top of their game, you know, Jim Carrey had all his movies coming out, Ace Ventura and Dumb and Dumber, and you know, Adam Sandler was doing his thing, and you know, it's just all these just hilarious things. And and I'd and I'd find it, and then I'd watch it over and over again. I realized that I could mimic a lot of the voices and a lot of the things, and you know, I'd I'd I'd go to my mother and and you know, I'd I could I could make her laugh, you know, because she was not in a laughing mood most of the time, and I could I realized I could make her laugh. I kind of do the you know, the president of the time, you know, was we were kind of switching over from George Bush senior into into Bill Clinton. And I could kind of do, you know, both of them a little bit, and I'd I'd be like, mom, not gonna do it. And you know, wouldn't be prudent at this juncture, you know, like and but I wasn't really doing George Bush, I was doing Dana Carvey doing George Bush. So this is this this over-the-top kind of like and she would laugh. And so I liked that, so I kept that going. And so that that was really my childhood. Was you know, I was I was I was addicted to laughing brought me out of my pain, and and food was probably the other one I turned to, you know. I mean, drugs and alcohol came much later, but you know, you know, food was food was a big one and and laughter. So I, you know, I look forward to coming home every day and watching my shows and laughing with my you know, cherry coke and all the sugar and you know, the all the snacks, and I was a chunky kid. So, but those were the those were the things, those were the things that really brought me out of it. So comedy's been a big part of my life forever. It really has been.

Peter Kolakovic 8:21

Well, I I came of age around that that same time. We're probably of a similar age because you know, all of the references that you just uh referred to that you know that they all resonate with me deeply. Yeah, so you know, just coming back to what you were saying there about, you know, living with your mom, her not displaying a lot of a lot of emotion, and you finding you know meaning in in comedy, what did your younger self believe would lead to a meaningful life?

SPEAKER_01 8:53

I never even thought about it. I I never I just I was so locked in on moment-to-moment living. It was just I really didn't have a lot of thinking of my future at that time. And you know, like it's that's not a big deal. When you're a kid, it's that's not too big a deal. But my mom never really talked to me about it. I really loved sports, you know, like I wanted to play in the NBA, I can tell you that, but that wasn't gonna happen. But you know, like it's I'm like, you know, she didn't say no. She's like, she's like, you might want to have a backup plan, you know. But but you know, that that was really what I wanted to do, I guess, at that time. It was it was later that I realized that I actually had a good niche and that comedy was something I actually could do and was was was good at and actually had a chance at, you know, I couldn't even make the high school basketball team. I played football, but I I couldn't play, I didn't make the high school basketball team. So it was like the NBA was out that quickly. So yeah, there wasn't really a lot of planning, and and a lot of my life has been like that, just like you know, the you know, the old joke of do I look like a guy with a plan, you know, like it's it's I it just and here we are. So but I've got I I've got vision now and I understand how that works, and pulling in a future and creating your future, kind of connecting to the energy of that future is what pulls it in. Um, so I have more planning now, but I really didn't back then.

Choosing Stand-Up As A Path

Peter Kolakovic 10:17

So when did you decide that comedy was going to be your career path? Was there like a key moment or turning point in your life when when everything became clear?

SPEAKER_01 10:28

It was in yeah, senior year high school. I I just I seemed to really have a knack for it and people to make people laugh and to be personable and kind of do the voices and things, and and and I just really loved doing it. And I like I like the attention that that that came from it. That was the other thing that was very addicting for me, is kind of that that that attention. It can be very addicting. But it was it was something that was like, oh, okay, I'm you know, I I decided to go to college, so I wasn't moving right. So after college, that was that was the plan. And so that's that that's what happened. But that's really when I decided was kind of senior year of high school, was like, okay, I'm gonna go to college because I've always wanted to for for whatever reason, I just felt like I wanted to go to college and get a degree, was just it was just something I wanted to do, you know, and so I did. And it was so after college is is that's that's when that's when I kind of really started trying to pursue it. It's just drugs and alcohol really, really kind of ruined things. So but that that's when I decided was in high school.

Peter Kolakovic 11:32

Okay. So when was the first time that you actually got up on a stage in front of people and and how did that go?

SPEAKER_01 11:41

That was in college, and it was at there was a there was a there was a comedy class I took at the local community college, a ASU, Arizona State. Uh they they didn't have anything quite they had classes that were like movie class, but nothing that was like a stand-up kind of like comedy class, like writing and preparing stuff. So I went to the local community college and and took a course there that you know wouldn't count towards my degree, but I just had to take it. And so that was the that was the first time ever. And and I can remember being extremely nervous, of course, and you know, it but it went well. And I remember feeling extremely high afterwards. It was like, oh, I got them to laugh, and that was really fun, and it wasn't you know as horrible, it didn't go horrible. I you know, I got some laughs, and and and it, and when you get laughs and you're on stage, it's it there's just this jolt of like, whoa, like I want more of that. What is that? Right, right. And and so that's that's really that was the first time, and so after that, it was it was kind of chasing chasing that, but again, it was mixed, you know, and also like I like that high, but I also like the high of drugs and alcohol. And and so in that those two things really weren't mixing well, as I found out when I moved to California, which is that's I was trying to pursue my that was after college, and so that's that's when I tried to really pursue the dream, and you know, things kind of rent went awry, I suppose.

Peter Kolakovic 13:12

So as you're pursuing this career in stand-up and you know getting getting better from performance to performance, I imagine. What is performing on stage teaching you about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 13:27

Yeah, you know, that I I that I really loved the the attention that I just I you know that I really liked and I loved making people laugh. There was an energy in these rooms that I would go, and I never made it pass, I never got paid. So so my stand-up career was just a lot of open mics, and and it and I kind of stopped it. I was I was doing a lot of drugs and alcohol in California. I was trying, I was, I was trying out for various things. I made the you know, a couple cool things happened, and I you know the groundlings theater, which is you know the big theater in LA that's you know, you know, Will Farrell and Phil Hartman, and you know, a lot of a lot of SNL guys have went through. So you know, it was nice, it was cool to get accepted there. It really doesn't mean a ton. You have to kind of go through and get classes before you actually hit the stage. You have to pass four levels of classes, but I was I was accepted into it, and that was exciting. I was, you know, I was doing kind of open mics and you know, kind of getting invited back, but still not ever getting paid. But I I was enjoying it so much I really didn't care. So I just I really learned that that this was I just I loved making people laugh. I love the energy around it was just like my mom. I could I could feel when she was in you know in a vibration, you know, just a negative vibration, and I was able to to change that. And so that kind of was like like a almost like a power trip. It's like I can change people's vibrations. I have the power to do that, and and I'm very sensitive to people's energy, so I could feel like kind of you know the change. And so that was also something that was really kind of fun. Was I was able, you know, changing people's vibrations. I I that's I just learned that I I just I loved making people feel good. Then you know, it was like an energy exchange between the two of us. I was making them feel good, they made me feel good, which made me feel better, and then I'd go further, and then like there was this like this high like energy exchange. So it was it's a lot of fun.

Peter Kolakovic 15:27

So you mentioned you know, drugs and alcohol on a few occasions,

First Stage High And Early Hustle

Peter Kolakovic 15:32

and I wanted to ask, you know, does comedy ever become a way of of hiding pain as much as expressing joy?

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Oh, for sure. Yeah, I think, yeah. I think I think you look back and you look some of the greatest comedians, they're some of the most damaged. I mean, I you know, I you you can look back and see there's there's a lot of tragedy in a lot of really funny people's lives, and that's how they deal with it, is to just and they and

When Comedy Hides The Hurt

SPEAKER_01 15:57

and and they just throw themselves into their comedy. And that's what it takes to make great comedy. You have to completely commit to it. And if your life isn't going so well, and you know, you've got all this, you know, you've got this pain or you've got things going on, that's what you want to do. You you don't want, you don't want to do anything else but completely throw yourself into into something else that brings you out of that pain. So, you know, I was looking, you know, Robin Williams is just the most classic example. I think he was the you know one of the funniest person that ever live, and he was just so, and but you could tell, you know, even on his stage that there was there was a darkness and there was a there was a sadness to to him. And you know, you could you could just tell and feel it, and and you can see it in a lot of his his stand-up now. You can go back and look and you can you can see the pain in his eyes a lot of times, even on stage. But you could see also that this was an incredible release and it was you know it was bringing him out of that pain, but you could tell that that pain was there and it existed. And and you could tell that by someone's eye, you know, the eyes are the window of the soul, and and I can always, you know, I it read people very well now through the eyes. So yeah, it's it's it really is it much more than bringing people joy. That was that was kind of the second place, was bringing myself out of that that pain. And it is, it is, it is similar to a drug because it's creating, you know, those same kind of chemicals, the dopamine and stuff in the brain, and and it brought me out of my pain. So and I'd want to throw myself into it and do the best I could. So that's really that's really why I did it. You know, it wasn't, you know, necessarily because you know, I would have loved to, you know, become, you know, have my own show and like all this, you know, the the you know, the the the money and the fame, but I would concentrate on is is how much how good it made me feel to make others feel, you know, to laugh. And and this again, it's that energy exchange. So yeah, I'd say I did it for selfish reasons. I did it to make myself feel good, and it does make me feel good. So yeah, I'd say it's it's more than just bringing it's yeah, it is bringing myself out of the pain. That's really the the number one reason why I did it. Yeah. And why I did it for free so long. I just kept doing it.

Hecklers, Feedback, And Numbing Out

Peter Kolakovic 18:01

So the last comedy show that I attended was a couple of years ago, and I didn't know it when I was going there, but apparently my friend got us a table that was like right in the front row, right by the stage, which was the biggest mistake because that's where you know you inevitably get called on by the comedian. Now, I was wise enough not to try to heckle this guy because he he did start talking to us and asking us some questions, but I was like, I'm not getting I'm not getting into it with a professional comedian, it's not gonna end well, so I just kind of sh you know shut my mouth. But you know, I'm sure in your career, you've you've probably had the experience of being heckled. And I'm you know, I'm wondering, you know, what what is that like and what have audiences taught you over the years?

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Yeah, well, they tell you what's good and what's not, and you have to just try stuff out. You just gotta, it's like throwing on the wall and seeing what sticks, you know. It's just and you have to, like, and and you just have to be prepared that not everything is gonna work, even it's you know, I'd find this, it's like I find this really funny, and then you'd hit the stage and the crowd didn't find it funny, or there'd be something that was just like uh I don't know if this is gonna work, and then and then but they respond and they then they love it, and so you just don't know until you get up there and you just throw it out and just see. So you just come up with a set, and usually it's pretty short for you know these open mics, it's in three to five minutes, and so I can come up with all kinds of stuff in three and five minutes. Are you kidding me? Like that's so easy. So, you know, it wasn't these long sets, you know, that's you know, that you know, these comedians and you know, like Eddie Murphy Raw and the other hour, and it's it wasn't, you know, so I could really come up with quite a bit and it would go so fast, but yeah, it was it, you know, the the heckling, and you know, I just I just kind of respond with you know with with kind of laughing and and just kind of say, oh come on. Oh, that did I get okay, that didn't land. That didn't land. All right, all right, we're good. Okay, next joke. You know, like I I just kind of whatever, whatever, whatever, you know, I just kind of go in and just be like, okay, I'm gonna tell some jokes now, and then just and then just go and just see see what happens. And and so it's and and you just have to not let it let it get to you. And and and a lot of times, especially in Los Angeles, like I I was I I would be like Xanax was really my favorite drug, like, and and that's you know, kind of a legal kind of borderline you know, alcohol in Xanax because they they would just completely take away any sort of fear, any it's gone. So I it's just I would be up there on stage just fearless, not feeling anything. So, you know, I just would and that's how that's how I did it for so long, and that's how I allowed myself to do it because I just I had no fear on, you know, it's just it's you know, Xanax is essentially just is just alcohol and a pill. So I'm you know, getting drunk and you just don't care. So and I just get up there and well, I wouldn't care. And I and I and I'd heckle them right back, and and they'd love it. You know, they'd love it. So, you know, that's that's how I handled it. And and so it's and it worked, you know, for a time and till I needed to until everything got too out of control.

Peter Kolakovic 21:10

So as your life has evolved, how has your relationship with humor changed, if at all?

SPEAKER_01 21:18

It hasn't. Yeah, no, I still I you know I I make my I'm my biggest fan, I think. I I make myself laugh all the time. And there's times when, you know, like I I wish there was someone that could hear hear my jokes, you know, like when I'm around my apartment, I just I live alone with my dog, and you know, there's I wish there was someone, but they'd have to it'd have to be someone who's like seen everything that I've seen. You know, because I I'll I'll I'll I'll see something and and kind of be able to to to to you know work it back to like some kind of pop culture reference or something and just make and just crack myself up. That's why I'll be just laughing in my apartment just to myself and and it's just so much fun. But I do I do I did come miss you know making other people laugh because I it was something I kind of you know I hung up the mic you know quite quite a bit ago when I when I really wanted to get sober and I realized I was just having these panic attacks and and and like really struggling with with getting on stage so you know it but but overall but nothing is nothing has changed. I I absolutely adore you know making myself laugh and that's all that really matters

Blackouts Become The Wake-Up Call

SPEAKER_01 22:26

in the end.

Peter Kolakovic 22:26

So you mentioned you know that moment where you realized you wanted to get sober. Was there a defining moment when you realized that your life needed to change? What did that look like?

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Yeah, there was it was living in Los Angeles when everything I you know I left ASU. I had a graduated with a degree and a severe drug problem. So I moved to Los Angeles already with issues, and they just continued to escalate and move up there, which of course. So you know, the the point was was really you know, especially something like like Xanax, it it just it it you just it just deletes your memory. So I I realized I went out for a set one time and I woke up the next day and I didn't remember anything. I don't remember anything. I don't know how I did, I don't know, I I didn't remember if I showed up, and like my memory stopped, and I don't remember going to the club. I had to call and say, like, did I show up? Did I do something? It was like, yeah, you did, but you were really sloppy and you were kind of a mess, and like, you know, it, you know, well, we're not gonna have you back. So that was really like like okay, things, you know, things are are getting out of control. I can't seem to control the amount anymore, and I'm losing days of memory, and I can't I I can't, you know, I'm I don't know how I'm doing. I it's just so that that was the point was like, okay, all right, you know, that's this is this is becoming an issue. And and that's really when I decided to, you know, try to go to rehab and and and and and make myself better, you know, even though that I was I wasn't sure if I'd be able to do comedy without with without drugs, if I wasn't able to, I just I but I I couldn't I it was getting to the point where I couldn't do comedy with drugs either. So so it was it was just time to it was just time. It just was like, okay, I I need to go, I need to do this. And that's really was that was kind of the the stopping point was was just losing days of memory and these chunks of time that I just would just complete blackout, just complete blackout. It was scary because it was like, I don't know how I got, I don't know how I got to this club, I don't know when I went up, I don't know what I said, I have I don't have I don't remember how I got home, I don't remember anything. So that was terrifying, and that's really was the first kind of like all right, I need help.

Rehab, Relapse, And Letting Spirit In

Peter Kolakovic 24:57

So what did healing actually look like for you in the beginning?

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah, the beginning, good question. Yeah, the beginning was very different. The beginning, I didn't I never had much of a spiritual life, so the beginning was just, you know, and I was doing more than just Xanax and alcohol. There's a lot of stimulants involved and cocaine, and you know, pot was obviously in there, and you know, there was Adderall at times, and you know, there's all you know, all kinds of stuff. And and so, you know, I just I was just like, okay, so I'm gonna check into rehab and I just I need to just get myself clean. My body needs to be cleaned of these things. I'm struggling so much because the oh, the opiates, oh the opiate, I forgot about the opiate. The opiates were in there too, and so I would mix things, and that's really when things would get out of hand, and that was yeah, oh man, a lot. But I I just assumed that I was, you know, I kept doing drugs because my body was physically addicted to these drugs. I was going through, I was getting sick, you know, the the the opiates would, you know, they'd drown me out, and or or that, you know, if the the op the benzos would would leave, the xanax would leave, and I'd be have super high anxiety, but I'd have to have more, or the or the opiates would leave and I'd start getting sick. I mean, I was really bad, bad, bad, bad. So yeah, it that's that's really when that was really the first time. And and I just figured just my body's gonna get clean, and then once my body's clean, I just won't do it again. I won't want to do it again because I'll remember how bad it was doing it. And that approach lasted shockingly three months. I look back now and I'm I'm impressed with myself that it even lasted three months of just of nothing else, of you know, no spiritual aspect or anything. Like it's you know, I was just determined to do it. But three months still isn't very long. So I was and uh and there I was back in rehab a second time. But that that's what the first time looked like was just get my body clean. I'm I'm fine. This spiritual, you know, AA and spiritual, you could just you can keep all that. I don't want any to do anything with that. I'm good, just clean me out, and so that's what I did, and it didn't work, so yeah, so it it had to change, yeah.

Peter Kolakovic 27:03

Okay, so how did your understanding of yourself begin to shift during that journey? Because you said at first, you know, there was absolutely no spiritual component to it, but eventually it seems like you did go down that path. So how are things shifting for you at that time?

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Yeah, there you know, I started to realize that I was being pretty arrogant, and you know, and I so I kind of went back to rehab. I moved back to Arizona at this time because it just wasn't it wasn't working. I wasn't able to, you know, I I knew too many people in California that had drugs, and it was too easy to get them, and I was, you know, I was back on drugs at that point. So it was just it was time to kind of, you know, I was like 26 and and it was time to call mom and just say, I I give up. I can't, I can't do this. I'm I'm miserable. I can't, you know, this is not working. I you know, even if a career, you know, if I'm this miserable, even if even if I had a bunch of money in a career and the drugs are making me so miserable, it wouldn't have mattered. So I just let me come home. So I I went to I went back, came back here, and went to rehab. And you know, I I went to I picked a place that was, you know, kind of what I can spiritual, what I what I now consider to be religious, and and now I know there's there's a there's a big difference. And but you know, that it was kind of a Christian-based place and faith-based and everything. And so I was like, all right, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna embrace this stuff because I apparently I need to, because I guess I don't know everything there is to know. So I just embraced that and I went went back and and and I had, you know, I I I I felt good, you know, like in these kind of Bible study groups, and there was something to it about the camaraderie and you know, like, you know, reading and and and so I I gravitated towards that. And and so and and the whole AA thing, AA and Christianity really, you know, go well together because AA is essentially you know, disguised Christianity. It's got built on the foundation of of Christianity. And so so those two went really well together for for quite a while. And I was, you know, I was here sober. I had I I had kind of I I did a couple stand-up things, you know, Tempe and stuff, and but I just it just it didn't it just I was just getting really panicky at that time and I didn't I just I just wasn't it just lost its its fun. So I you know, because I was really struggling kind of getting myself together. So so you know, going so early in sobriety wasn't a good idea, but so I but I did that and and you know after about seven years, and I'd you know I'd quit comedy and everything, I was I was clean for quite a long, long time. And this kind of transitions into you know the next spiritual awakening

Grief, Religion Fear, And A New Guide

SPEAKER_01 29:50

and development. So we'll just I'll just go ahead and get into that. So, you know, my mother gets sick at this time, terminally ill. And you know, my my mother was had her issues, but I loved her very much. She was a sweet person, she was always kind to everybody, she just was really not kind to herself. That's really the only person she was not kind to. You know, she she had her moments where she she wouldn't talk and stuff, and she didn't she yeah, she had her issues, but she was she was she was she did the best job she could, and you know, and that's what's what was important. She did the best job that she could, she gave everything she had, and so when she was dying, you know, I had I had this Christian programming in my head that you know, she never went to church, she never did my church said that everyone's a sinner and we're all hellbound and you have to give yourself to Jesus, otherwise you're going to hell. And so that idea really crept into my soul. I really was kind of a weak-minded individual back then. I didn't question things, I just kind of accepted was like, oh, okay, you know, like I have to, you know, I kind of went to a pastor and you know, I told him no worry about it. It's I think my you know, my mom is kind of one of these heathens you talk about. And of course, he wouldn't, you know, he wouldn't say, Yes, she's going to hell, but she wouldn't say she's going to heaven either. So, you know, like I felt like I take it upon myself. I needed to like convert her or whatever. And and so I was worried in the last days and I was filled with fear and and it just was really kind of you know traumatizing. And you know, it was hard enough to see her, you know, pass. But the you know, the whole this whole other level of this this hell issue, just you know, the church is supposed to be there when you know, through hard times they're supposed to help you through it. Well, not only, you know, did they not help, but they made it worse. So, you know, I then after she passed, I I relapsed, went right back to using drugs and alcohol because church wasn't helping, AA wasn't helping, nothing was helping. And drugs did. They they they we went back and said, okay, yeah, we're back on this, we're doing this for now. Let's drink and just let's just try to keep it to a minimum. Let's not get too crazy with it. That can only last for so long. So, you know, I I went back and and I decided at that time that you know, I was gonna replace my with my pastor with a shaman. I was gonna try a different approach because I just didn't something was wrong, something was wrong with this idea that my mother would be in hell. I just I just couldn't, I couldn't grasp that, even though I was scared. And so I just I decided to go different routes and hear from different people and hear from different you know religions and beliefs and this whole spiritual thing, and you know, tell me about yoga, you know. So my dad, who's who's who's much more in the kind of consciousness, you know, kind of spirituality kind of person and and you know, over just religion. So he had a had a friend who was who was a shaman, and he came in for two weeks every day, and he worked with me, and he started breaking down some of my false beliefs, some of my limiting beliefs from childhood, from adulthood, from what, you know, just these things that these beliefs that were not working for me, that were not doing me any good. So, you know, I started you know breaking those down and really questioning, I was like, you know, I you know I you sound right. And you know, he's I started meditating and I started these visualization techniques and and and I started, you know, yoga, I was very inflexible, and you know, yoga is covers all three mind, body, and spirit. It's just absolutely wonderful. And so I started doing, I was really threw myself into that and and the meditation, and you know, it's it's still an absolute, absolute everyday must. I wake up in the morning, I yoga, I meditate, no questions asked. Can't it can't, it has to happen every day. So I was doing all these things, and one day, one day, man, it's the

The Bliss Attack And Consciousness

SPEAKER_01 33:26

craziest thing. I, you know, I was I was stretching, I wasn't even meditating at the time, but I was stretching and something came over me. And it was like I call it my bliss attack. And you know, a lot of people they call it a near, you know, the near-death experience where they experience this, this, this, this, this, you know, religious experience that's like they come out of their body and they leave. I didn't come out of my body, I definitely was in my body, but emotionally, I was it was like I was dying and and it feeling what it was like to do dying in the best way, because I was I was a healthy guy. I was not dying at all, but I was this it was I was filled with love. So I call this my near life experience or my bliss attack. And it's it was just this this amazing waves of love. This was three hours, and it was just came over me. I was no no drugs, that was important to know. I was I was complete, I was I was working on myself. I was probably a month sober at that time. I'll did no drugs in my body whatsoever. I'm not coffee that morning, but you know, like so it's it was just incredible. And and at the same time, I'm feeling this feeling, I'm getting these downloads from the universe. I'm getting, I'm getting talked to, not in an audible way, but it like it's like hitting my spirit, hitting my mind, not audibly. It's just it's like, but something is giving me like these these downloads and giving me, and I know they're true because of how I'm feeling that moment and having no reason to feel in that moment. Something is happening. And I realize this is what they call a religious experience. And I realized what what stood in the way of my religious experience for so long was religion. It's very paradoxical, right? Like, so it's so it's all this was happening, and I realized in that moment, you know, there's this there's this field, there is a field of energy that surrounds us at all times. It's like what we're fish swimming in water. And you know, do do water, do you know, do fish really understand that they're swimming in water? I probably not. You know, you ask a fish, do you read the water around you? They'd probably say, What are you talking about? I don't know what do you mean. And that's what this is. This is this was like realizing that we're we're in this, like, this this fish bowl of consciousness. And there's this, there's this field almost like you can get, you can tap into it like like it's like it's it was it's like turning off airplane mode. Like I I felt like the whole my whole life I was in airplane mode. And this was the moment it got turned off, and all the texts and all the emails started coming in, man. It was like crazy. And so it was it, it was just it was just incredible. And and you know, it's and and and you know going back to the fish, it was like it was like I it was a fish in a pond, living in a pond my whole life, just you know, they're just swimming around in this little pond, and all of a sudden it was like like I got caught by a fisherman and got pulled out of that pond to see that there's there's a lot of ponds, there's a there's an ocean, there's land. Like, what is this? And then got thrown back in. And so now I'm that fish that just saw the world. And how do you explain that to other fish? You know, like you know, there's this whole other world out there. Like, you know, once you see the water, you know, you want to help you want to tell everyone else, and that is source energy. So the the whole boy, you know, the whole it's sorcery, S O U, C A R Y. So it's it, it's it's it's tapping into this universal field. And once you able to understand how to do it, like you can you can download things because everything, I don't think there's any original thought that I've had or anyone else's had. You they're just able to tap in, it's already here. The past, present, future, it's all happening now. And if you can tap into it, that's what musicians do. It's like, where do these amazing songs come from? Where the how do the Beatles do what they did? It's it was there. They they just they just kind of got into it got into their groove and just like and it just kind of came and and that's how this worked. And that's how where the book came from, and and that's was the whole point, is is this whole system of trying to help people have their own bliss attack. And that's what I created was this this blueprint or this map to help other people have their own bliss attack and to and to help people out of their trauma. So and and it it just absolutely was it was incredible. So it's it was just I love talking about it because it always gives me like like goosebumps and stuff. It's just that it's just my favorite thing to talk about. But yeah, that that's so so that happened.

Peter Kolakovic 37:38

Well, it sounds like like an incredible experience, and you know, I've I've had I've had a similar experience that was brought on by plant medicine, and I and I know that uh, you know, other people you know, it can be, as you said, near-death experience, it can be any number of different things that can bring about this powerful, as you called it, bliss attack or near life experience, which is a wonderful way of putting it. And I'm wondering why do you think it happened when it happened in your life?

SPEAKER_01 38:09

You know, it's like it's that old saying of like once the student is ready, the teacher will appear. And this energy is that teacher that's like, okay, now you're you're open. So so the whole idea with meditation is is is you're you're going from a from a converted focus to what is the name of converted focus and forget the name of the word. I'll think of it. But it's it's so we're in a convergent focus right now. So we're you know, you're what's where your focus is converged on divergent, that's the other word. So your focus is converged on something, and and we're constantly in a convergent focus all throughout the day. We we need to be. So, you know, you go from the you know, waking up the kids, getting out of school, you know, then we're we're going to work and we're concentrating on work, and then we come home, we're on the phone, okay, put the kids away, you know, watch TV, and we're going in bed. Well, you've you you've now told the creator of the universe you are too busy for it, and you you and which is fine. The creator of the universe is going to leave you alone because it is a this is a world of absolute free will. So, you know, understanding that you know, you I had to create that you know divergent focus. And I like to compare it to if you're standing up against a brick wall with your nose against the brick wall, you only see you're gonna see a blurry shade of red. I mean, that's all you're gonna see. Well, if you take a step back, okay, you make out a brick, take another step back, right? There's multiple bricks, take another step back, you realize, okay, this is a wall, you know, you're taking a few more steps backs, and and now you realize what was just a blurry shade of red is actually just like this magnificent castle. And now you've reached a divergent focus, the the the broadening of the focus. And so that's what I decided, that's what I figured out was was was kind of the the key to all this was was was allowing this energy to speak and guide me. And it's it's I do it every day, and I get all kinds of information, and and and it just makes me feel good. And and it's it's it's really kind of the key for everything. And it's it's just been absolutely wonderful.

Writing Sorcery 101 In Sedona

Peter Kolakovic 40:15

So let's talk a bit about your book, Sorcery 101. So, what inspired you first to write that book, and why did you intentionally spell sorcery the way that you did?

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Yes, my favorite stuff to talk about. Yeah. So the book came to me. I was living in Sedona after a multiple traumas that had happened to me. I my I lost my mother, I lost my sister, I lost a close childhood friend. My my son was taken from me. My ex moved, you know, went to Boston to visit her family and never came back and cut me out of their lives. I still haven't seen them to this day. It's been three and a half years. So, you know, I had all these multiple traumas happen. And I had to, and it's somewhere in the middle there is when this bliss attack happened the first time. But I needed to go to Sedona and start healing. That's what I felt called to. So I just moved up there and it's very powerful up there. There's a lot of energies, and you know, the natives would go up there, and I knew the natives would go up there and they would, they wouldn't live up there necessarily, they'd go up there to heal and then kind of come back. And so I was just thinking, all right, I'm just I'll probably, you know, I think I'm gonna live up there forever, but I need to go and at least, you know, find live there for a year or whatever. And so I did, and I did a lot of plant medicines there, but my bliss attacks don't come on psychedelics, they don't come on anything. I have to be completely drug-free. No, no, no pills, no, and nothing. There can't be anything, and even psychedelics. Like I've had great experiences on psychedelics, believe me, but this is in next level. This is something past that, this is something better than that. And so the only time that my bliss attacks have ever come is when I'm completely sober. So I am, you know, I'm up there and I'm kind of meditating, putting out to the universe that, you know, it's like I, you know, things are really not going so great in my life right now. And I'm, you know, I really need guidance. I need something. So, you know, about a month later, when I put that out, and it was I was on Bell Rock, a very famous vortex, and doing this meditation and putting it out and envisioning things. And I was just on, I was on a hike, and boom, the bliss attack happens. I'm just alone on a hike, just listening to music, but I feel it, I know when it's happening, and it just overtakes me, and it's just unbelievable. And all of a sudden it starts just shooting all this stuff at me. It was like, you're gonna create a system to help people heal from trauma. You're gonna do it with no religious undertones like AA. This is gonna be built on spirituality, not religion. You're gonna create a little bit different, you're but you're gonna use it, you're gonna use something like the 12 steps, but you're gonna create something a little bit different. So instead of 12 steps, I've got 13 rungs. So it's and that's kind of where the similarities end, even though that's really not that similar. But I it is, I did use, I thought of the 12 steps, and I thought of something, you know, that's that's kind of like a map and a blueprint to help people heal. But my system of the 13 rungs is is not just addiction or anything like that. It's it's it's focused on spiritual bankruptcy. And spiritual bankruptcy comes with you know many symptoms, anxiety, depression. Anything labeled chronic really is is, I believe, at its core is a spiritual bankruptcy. I mean, it could be autism, just any of these chronic conditions, cancer, you know, autoimmune disorders, even physical, you know, disorders, you know, I I believe this is this is at the core. And this is this is my feeling, this is what I'm being kind of given this information. So I get super excited and and and I go home and I start you know outlining everything immediately. Like there was just immediately. I was so excited. So I just, you know, the 13 rungs, and they just all started just coming. Like I just was writing, I was like, oh my god, and it's just this, just this unbelief. I didn't have to think. It just it it was I was attached, I was hooked into this like like a what like the Wi Fi, you know, like a you know, you you don't know Wi Fi is there, and you have to have a computer. Well, your mind is that computer, it's just it's just getting. on the right frequency. And so it's it's it's all it was all there and it just like came off. And you know the and then I was thinking about like you know what to call it. And you know I was listening to to I was listening to Wayne Dyer one day and he he was he was talking about he kind of mentioned just real briefly in one of his one of his you know speeches and he's he was mentioning someone of great spiritual ilk like you know meeting someone you know that I don't know if it was the Dalai Lama I don't forget exactly who it was but you know meeting this this person who is very high on the on the spiritual ladder. And he he called him he was he he's like this you know the guy the energy was coming from him he was just absolutely amazing and you know he he was like he was like a sorcerer but you know not not like you know not not like a wizard or anything he was you know he was just getting all his energy from source and and boom it hit me right there spelled with you and and because and then he just goes on talking about other things and so that was the moment was like okay so we're gonna call this sorcery we're gonna spell it with the you to separate it from wizards and magic and you know I I don't know we all we'd all like to you know turn our roommate into a frog sometimes or you know levitate the phone to our hand but you know I'm not Merlin or Gandalf so so it was so it was important to separate it a little bit and and so a lot of people don't catch the you it's like a sorcery it's you know I I get that a lot that's just you know I'm not really a sorcerer that's ridiculous it's like well no no no no this this is this is different this is real magic this is like emotional alchemy this is that kind of sorcery so yeah that's where that's really where it all came from and it just it just has excited me ever since and and you know hearing people's feedback but the yeah that that was it that that was that was that was that was the genesis right there um so so the full title of your book is sorcery 101 13 rungs to a higher elevation of consciousness can you tell us more about those 13 rungs what do they look like oh sure I mean so it's they're not enough time to go over all 13 certainly but but yeah there's you know the the first one starts with with shadow work which is is it's the first one for a reason it's extremely important to understand that the two sides of us and and especially with me you know we have this side of us that's the shadow that's created you know it through our traumas and these limiting beliefs that's that's not that's not us you know that in aa they'd say you know I I'm an alcoholic well well no no you're not you're the awareness of the alcoholic you you're not that's not you you're not the character your past has

The 13 Rungs And Shadow Work

SPEAKER_01 46:30

created so you know that that it's very important to understand this concept and and just to kind of briefly go over it you know I I realized at times I came up with this this this kind of metaphor for it it's it's if you if you're in a car and you know the shadow can either be driving your car can be in the passenger seat or it can be in the backseat. And it's important to know which which is which so if the shadow is driving your car it's always going to drive it off a cliff. Maybe you recover the car put it back on the road well it's gonna drive off a cliff again. It's gonna constantly be aiming for the cliff. And so this is people you see you know street people this was me I I you know I lived on the on the street for you know week or two here and there never for long periods of time but it was just because I just wanted to get high and I didn't want to I didn't want to I didn't want to go home or or do anything else. So I that's what I did. And so the shadow was driving my car. It's just constantly driving it off the cliff. I mean it's people that um street people you see these are people that just can't function in society at all. And so their shadow is driving the car. And it's and it's important to know that when you look at someone and their eyes are our eyes are black it's not a good sign. Generally I've found people that have the when the shadow is driving the car, a lot of times their eyes will be black and and I've seen this on certain celebrities that I've seen there's a certain pop diva that I I that her her eyes are are black and and it's it's turned and so you know if if you watch out for that you know kind of the signs and you know to kind of keep her distance from these people. These they're good people they're fine but but but their shadow is driving the car. So if you move it to the passenger seat well this is this is this is what happened with me with with Christianity and why I struggled so much getting back on stage because I had this the these limiting beliefs still in my system from childhood that I'm not good enough. I'm not you know it's I'm not really that funny. You know the the shadow really started talking to me because I didn't have the drugs to drown it out. So the shadows in my passenger seat kind of talking to me and and especially with Christianity there's a lot of fear in Christianity that the whole hell thing is held over a lot of people's heads and so you know you've got this this this fear like you got to be a good Christian otherwise you're going to hell you know and so it's creating this fear and not not letting you be who you are authenticity. And so where it where it's important is is is in back that that's where it is now. And it's you can't kick it out of the car. And so you have to love it because if you start hating your shadow and you hate the side of you you're now creating the same emotions the shadow is comprised of it's you're not doing any good. So you have to love the side of you understand that it was created in a time of of need and and you just you're just moving past it you don't need it anymore. So you're just moving into the backseat and you're checking it. It's like a child in the back seat. It's like you get the child in the uh you know in the little you know high high chair or whatever the the the car seat and you know you're just you know how's the air back there buddy you know you need some Cheerios you know want some sliced apples you know like you're just checking on it and you're just kind of you know you know it's there and you're loving it. And so that's it's just an important concept to understand. So that's why that's that's the first one. I can go over a couple of just briefly you know the second one is is also very important. I call it a a call for inaction. Uh there's a kind of a reversal there's the call to action there's there's a call to inaction this is this is meditation and this is what I was talking about the convergent divergent focus and how important it is to meditate and and call in this energy and and say invite it in say I'm not busy talk to me. So it is just a critical part of understanding the the third one is surrender to serenity which essentially is understanding the human condition and you know surrendering to the fact that you know jerky people are in a lot of pain and you know if you attack the situation with love peace will follow. But one of the biggest things that's helped me is understanding people and and I'm you know I'm so I can switch someone off of being a jerk so quickly now like because because I can I can I'm just I they want the negative energy back because these are people that feed on it and they're so used to that energy that that anger energy it's a very charging it's a not it's not a fun energy but it's also very charging and it keeps people going. So so they're constantly looking for things in their world to try to make them angry because this is the energy they're thriving that's the gas that's the gas they're putting in their car. So I used to I I lived with a woman who was an absolute anger junkie and she would just find things to to just to just make her mad and you know she she could walk in one day and pass a huge pile of dishes and and say nothing and and be in the great mood and then and then and then the next day walk in to maybe half that pile of dishes and and explode over it. And so it's I started realizing that this is someone who's just addicted to this emotion that they're there's charging themselves up and they're just finding anything they can it could be traffic it could be but understanding why they're doing this and and not to feed into it and and to to to to to make things better but it understanding people and how they work and the subconscious and all that stuff that's all the surrender to serenity there's health 12th which is kind of self-explanatory it's mind body spirit when you feed one you're feeding the other two take care of your body you know emotion alchemy that's the fifth one that's that's that's that's the real magic where it's at that is alchemizing negative emotions in a positive one through acts of kindness or you know you can kind of you can alchemize you know you know fear and kind of you can if if you you you have the energy of fear and you get curious about it you can kind of alchemize it into something completely different. So fear could be turned into curiosity which then can be you know the which can be a very useful thing. You know fear is not very useful. You know you can't live in fee faith and fear at the same time you got to pick one. Can't do both. It doesn't work that way. So there's many things I go over in that chapter that kind of you know these these various emotions that can be alchemized into higher elevated emotions. And and you know these these acts certainly kindness is is is is the biggest one where you can really change the way you feel and you are in control of how you feel at all times. That's what I realized. You know so you know I don't have time to to go over all 13 but you know there's there's there's a there's a there's a few more and but that's you know essentially how I set up the book. So you know it's just these 13 things that you know if if you pay attention it will absolutely change your life and break you out of being the robot right if you're not constantly questioning your thoughts and your feelings before they become actions you have been regulated to a biological robot. You're you're just you're just you're you're a meat computer and so we have a lot of these people a big most favorite term now is the NPC the nonplayer character and these are people that just aren't questioning anything and they're just running the program and they're just they're just running that program and the world is full of them. So you know that and that's another kind of go over that and that that's surrender to serenity but it's you know it's it's it's getting out pulling yourself out of the character and and seeing what you are and and and that's where the real change happens. So you know I created this whole thing of this you know sorcerer's creed and all these you know this the kind of 13 things that you know just help me every day to to kind of read and go over and and then there's the rungs themselves and and it's just I wrote the book for me. Let's be honest like I it's it's helped me become helped me you know that there there is no healed I don't feel when you've been through really hard trauma you know but it's there's no healed but there there's there is a constant desire for healing and that's where you want to be there you know you can't ever expect to be healed and and it's because you know if you take a shotgun to the to the arm you know you can leave it a gaping wound and or or you know if you if you let it heal without surgery or anything like that it's gonna be sensitive to the touch for you know you're gonna be like holding it back and this is the same for emotional right so you know you're gonna be holding it back you're gonna be you you're not gonna want to like put it near anybody you know if someone gets near it it's good you're gonna react you're not gonna respond you're gonna react because it hurts and so this is the same with emotional trauma. You get near that emotional trauma you react and that there's you know a sorcerer responds they don't react and so you know that's that's that whole thing it's just all all things like that are there are kind of loaded into there and there's just there's just a lot of stuff that I was you know kind of given that was like okay here's where this is going to oh this is gonna and just the book was just so much fun to write but I really did write it for me but I realized that it really could help other people and I keep it light it's very very funny too it's it's written in a very funny manner.

Where To Start With Healing

SPEAKER_01 55:21

Well speaking of helping other people how can someone begin healing even if they don't know where to start well you know the the the the best way to to start is kind of understanding the these these concepts of you know this this shadow character and and meditation that's really where to start you know you know you don't need to do anything else if you start understanding those things and and and getting curious getting curious about other people that's gonna help a ton get curious about other people get curious about the world start questioning things don't just take you know what people say and just okay well does that make sense start asking yourself because there's an intuitive voice and there's an instinctual voice the instinct and intuition people use them in the same but they're not the same at all that's actually the eighth wrong I think is instinct versus intuition and so understanding these concepts and and knowing that that they're different and and learning you know that there's just there's things you can do but meditation and yoga is just you know that's that's what I recommend to everyone. There's guided meditations there's the the call map the headspace uh insight timer all guided meditations I had to start with guided meditations because my mind you know it's it's just like getting your body in shape you got to get your mind in shape. I mean my mind was you know it was like my web browser back in college was 19 tie obs open you know three were frozen and I don't know where that music is coming from you know like that was my that was my that was my mind back then but I I've learned I train I've trained it and and now it's I still have meditations where I'm not focused always you you're always gonna have that but but most meditations I get locked in and it is just absolutely incredible. But understand when you start meditating it's it's it's tough. People say I'm bad at meditation that's there's there's no good and bad at meditation there's practiced and there's unpractice and that's all there is. So if you continue with it you will see results. And so if you don't know where to start start with meditation and I promise just that alone without going deep into these other concepts and everything else that alone will start changing things absolutely 100% I couldn't agree more.

Peter Kolakovic 57:29

I I have my own daily meditation practice and I can confirm that uh it is it is absolutely life changing. It is Justin there's so many more questions I would love to to ask you you know you've you've raised so many you know really really interesting points during this conversation I I think I'm gonna have to have you back at some point in the future because I feel like we've barely scratched the surface here. We have we have like barely like barely yeah yeah but unfortunately we are coming to the end of our time together today and I do have just one last question for you.

Living Your Best Life Authentically

Peter Kolakovic 58:04

The theme of this podcast is how we live our best lives so I wanted to ask you Justin what does it mean to you to live your best life?

SPEAKER_01 58:12

Yeah great question you know for for me authenticity is key is the number one key be your authentic self I love going to Comic Cons. We have them in Phoenix can't call it Comic Con anymore because San Diego took that name we call it fan fusion but it's it's it's a Phoenix Comic Con. And I go there and I see these people living their authentic lives. They're just nerded out they are they are dressed in their you know video game gear or pop whatever that is Pokemon and the whole suit and and everyone the energy at these places is just incredible because everyone has has they're they're not at work. They're being their authentic self. If you want to see authenticity you know go to a Comic Con in one of these big cities they're in every city every once in once a year. And it's living that authentic life and if you're not living an authentic life you're essentially holding your soul hostage. And if there's someone in your life that is standing in that way and they don't understand that they're they're not someone that should really be in your life. I believe it was uh Dr. Seuss oh great quote in the book it's Dr. Seuss it's you know you know those who mind those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind so it's it's living that authentic life and and that is that that is that is living your best life because it it will set your soul free and just you just you just gotta go for it. You know be the Comic Con people and just live your authentic life and just do it without any care of what anyone else thinks because that will set you free. And that's that's living your best life.

Peter Kolakovic 59:52

Well said Justin thanks for joining me on the podcast today. I I really enjoyed this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

Me too it was great. Good times